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Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

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  • bascule
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    Originally posted by CP99 View Post
    At this point, I think we can all agree that we, at very least, dislike the misuse of the term Hacker.
    My attitude is that at this point its meaning is so overloaded it's pretty silly to try to give it a specific definition which overrides any other ones in common usage.

    Leave a comment:


  • CP99
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
    If this is indeed the way people feel about this, then those hardworking folks that made the "Hackers are People too" movie wasted their time and should have never made it.

    I guess that we will also never see another thread like one I previously posted a link to in this thread regarding the mis-use of the term by the media.

    My point all along was to see why no one was making a statement about this particular incredibly high profile case and it's upcoming implications upon our futures. It would appear as though apathy again rules the day, it's too hard, we can't do anything.

    If this offends, I'm sorry.
    No offense taken, in fact I agree with your standpoints here.
    If you look back at the 2nd post in this thread, I stated that we should use a more correct term for the topic.
    I intended my statements to provoke thought on the situation, not remark on its supposed conclusion.

    At this point, I think we can all agree that we, at very least, dislike the misuse of the term Hacker.
    Now its about finding the people who are willing to put the effort in correcting misconceptions, which in it self is an uphill battle.
    HAPT is prime example of a step in the right direction.
    All we have to do now is find the next step.
    Last edited by CP99; September 23, 2008, 17:15.

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  • streaker69
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    Originally posted by CP99 View Post
    The term hacker has undergone changes, like christian, queer, and nigger.

    It's entirely possible that we all twiddled our thumbs while the media and public abused the term.
    It's entirely possible that now, there's no going back.
    If this is indeed the way people feel about this, then those hardworking folks that made the "Hackers are People too" movie wasted their time and should have never made it.

    I guess that we will also never see another thread like one I previously posted a link to in this thread regarding the mis-use of the term by the media.

    My point all along was to see why no one was making a statement about this particular incredibly high profile case and it's upcoming implications upon our futures. It would appear as though apathy again rules the day, it's too hard, we can't do anything.

    If this offends, I'm sorry.

    Leave a comment:


  • bascule
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    Originally posted by CP99 View Post
    The term hacker has undergone changes, like christian, queer, and nigger.

    It's entirely possible that we all twiddled our thumbs while the media and public abused the term.
    It's entirely possible that now, there's no going back.
    I'm sure the Lisp hacker community wants their word back too

    Leave a comment:


  • converge
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    TheCotMan: Yup.
    Streaker69: But the conversation becomes far less mobile in that context.

    Leave a comment:


  • CP99
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    This is a rant.

    The problem that begets all of these public misconceptions is simple, ignorance.
    Ignorance is causing fear and misunderstanding towards hackers, this is not new, and is something we already know.

    When a computer criminal commits a crime, he/she is referred to as a hacker, which in part is not incorrect.
    When someone commits crimes with a car, he/she is referred to in context of the crime, not as a driver.
    Why do you think this is?

    Public misconception and ignorance is something looming over the community, growing as fast as we do.
    This Palin deal is nothing more than another incident in a string of ignorant "news" reports being read by ignorant people (Bill O'reilly) to the ignorants at home.
    It's aggravating when ignorant news personalities misrepresent us in the news, but sadly there are people in our own community who use the term hacker solely to describe computer criminals publicly, where is the thread on that?

    I have stayed mostly quite on this topic until now, giving time to reflect upon what has been under our collective skin for some time.
    It's not news to people like streaker69, but there's a problem for us as a community, as Hackers.

    What I am trying to say, I think, is that while we discuss this here and now, the ignorance out there grows with every Fox News at 11 report about The Hackers.
    Ignorance just doesn't vanish. Projects like HAPT are great when it comes to informing the misinformed and ignorant.
    There's still a large void to be filled, what are you going to do?

    Maybe this is relevant, you decide.
    A friend once told me about how he wished he could live in a world where he could hack without worrying about the fuzzy distinctions of legal and illegal, to be able to not worry about his freedom if he decides to disclose some fundamental flaw in some system. He later went on to tell me how he didn't feel it was necessary to fix the ignorance on a large scale.
    I called him on his hypocrisy, how could he yearn for something so badly, yet do nothing to achieve it.

    This is too dynamic for any one approach to make a difference. -ie fix the problems
    The term hacker has undergone changes, like christian, queer, and nigger.

    It's entirely possible that we all twiddled our thumbs while the media and public abused the term.
    It's entirely possible that now, there's no going back.
    Last edited by CP99; September 23, 2008, 18:21. Reason: noted a statement

    Leave a comment:


  • Greyhatter
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
    In an attempt to be totally pedantic and annoying as those at /. it's 'segue'.

    /waits for the coming wrath.
    Oh, for the love of Pete, I practice the Old Testiment, and I has no clu what uz talkin' about! Dumb in down for the restofus plzz..

    Leave a comment:


  • streaker69
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    Originally posted by converge View Post
    great segway into a random rant.
    In an attempt to be totally pedantic and annoying as those at /. it's 'segue'.

    /waits for the coming wrath.

    Leave a comment:


  • Greyhatter
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    When my wife gets sick she "hacks." When a robber "cracks" a safe he ?????s. Any clues here?

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCotMan
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    Originally posted by converge View Post
    great segway into a random rant.

    the next person that stops a conversation to say 'no no no, youre talking about a _cracker_' and explains the difference between wording gets the shit strangled out of them behind the nearest building or car door with their pet dog watching.

    there are hackers. there are criminals.

    one breaks systems (figuratively, not literally), the other breaks laws (literally, not figuratively).

    they are neither mutually exclusive, nor mutually inclusive. deal with it.
    Wait! So, what are you saying?

    A hacker is someone that knows something[sub]1[/sub] so well, that they can bend that thing to do something-else[sub]2[/sub] (of value[sub]3[/sub] [i]and innovative[sub]4[/sub][/i]) that the original something[sub]1[/sub] was not originally designed to do.

    What? There is no reference to good, evil, legal, or illegal in that definition?

    So, a person skilled in any profession or hobby can be law-abiding, or a criminal?

    Sarcasm follows in italics:
    What? Un-possible! That makes no sense! Why, if that was true, then you could have hackers in organized crime! Hackers could work for the federal government! Heck, hackers could be spies working for the Chinese government against the US government, or in the US government against its own citizens! Now, that is just crazy talk. Nobody that is a hacker can ever be a hacker once they break the law.

    By the same token, there are no bad cops -- all cops are good, or else they are criminals. Right? No good-cop / bad-cop, just cop or criminal.

    It makes sense for a label like Hacker to be independent of good or evil and law-abiding and law-breaking. Labels like good, evil, law-abiding, and law-breaking can be normative in nature, and totally subjective. New laws are passed, and nations enforce laws within their own borders.

    To require labels like law-abiding and law-breaking as part of the definitions of hacker and cracker means that a person who is a hacker in one country is a cracker in another country. Why should a label deprecate or valuate a person's status depending on where they call home, or happen to be demonstrating their skill or knowledge?

    At one time I subscribed to the idea of hacker vs. cracker being worth consideration, but such a view underestimates the skills of people on both sides of the law.

    A successful general can fathom others (the enemy) while not being fathomed by others (the enemy.) (paraphrased.)

    To underestimate your adversary, is to fail to understand them, and that is your own personal failure as a leader, as you leave yourself open to attacks ignored as impossible because you underestimated your opponent.

    As for correcting the media and their mis-application of "hacker" where "computer criminal" would be more descriptive, especially where skill-set is considered, I have no time for such things. The press and media are huge. Correcting the media is a life-long pursuit. For every choice made to correct the media's mistakes, you pay an opportunity cost in the form of any other decision you could have made in spending your time. You could have learned a new skill, read a new paper, written a program, or earned some money, but instead you* choose to tilt at windmills? If you want to take on the media, and that is how you want to spend your time, then do so and enjoy it, but understand that every correction is an opportunity cost that you are paying, and sacrificing your time in doing so.

    *- the generic, "you," not anyone in particular.

    What is my cost in posting this reply? Dealing with a backlog of work from one of 2 jobs (110 hours last week, and the same this week), and here on the forums; I could have actually produced something of value, but instead I posted this. ;-)
    Last edited by TheCotMan; September 23, 2008, 09:58.

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  • YenTheFirst
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    I would argue that what they did hardly qualified as real 'hacking' or 'cracking' either way. BOTH terms are inappropriate.

    I'm sorry, but If one could take your average myspacer or 'aunt tillie', talk to them for 5 minutes, and have them be able to repeat this attack on any arbitrary target, it's the opposite of hacking or cracking.

    A hacker might pick the lock, a cracker might pick the lock, or steal the keys. a burglar goes in through the glass window. Using a password reset is more like breaking in through the glass window than anything else.

    Leave a comment:


  • Greyhatter
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    Originally posted by converge View Post
    great segway into a random rant.

    the next person that stops a conversation to say 'no no no, youre talking about a _cracker_' and explains the difference between wording gets the shit strangled out of them behind the nearest building or car door with their pet dog watching.

    there are hackers. there are criminals.
    Tried this Verge, no one listened. Stupid is as stupid stays it seems. BTW, in Nam, they eat doggies, not a bad ending after a good strangulation.
    Last edited by Greyhatter; September 23, 2008, 00:37.

    Leave a comment:


  • converge
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    great segway into a random rant.

    the next person that stops a conversation to say 'no no no, youre talking about a _cracker_' and explains the difference between wording gets the shit strangled out of them behind the nearest building or car door with their pet dog watching.

    there are hackers. there are criminals.

    one breaks systems (figuratively, not literally), the other breaks laws (literally, not figuratively).

    they are neither mutually exclusive, nor mutually inclusive. deal with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • blauman
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
    I think the fuzziness that most people are wanting to see is that committing of a crime to prove the alleged wrong doing of a public official. But that just comes down to the ends does not justify the means. After all the last thing the internet needs is a bunch of Charles Bronson's running around hacking everyone they perceive to be committing a crime.

    Hmmm... I agree, but in some cases I side with Charles Bronson. After all, we would jump through fire to get a child away from the burning flames of a building... Would you go to jail for him/her?... maybe, it depends on environmental variables of the case.

    The Palin issue is however different, this was politically motivated, I see no good reason. Therefore and by all means burn the lawbreaker in the stake... This is just my personal opinion.

    Xawewl Arfj

    Leave a comment:


  • blauman
    replied
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
    https://forum.defcon.org/showthread....hlight=privacy

    I didn't think I was crazy when I thought this community didn't like to have hackers portrayed in a bad light.

    Everything political aside, why am I the only one that's concerned that the media saying hackers did this to Palin is a bad thing? This has been my point the entire time.
    I surely know, you are not alone there, I am too, just like you, very upset about how the media handle those cases. More then once, it is not even a cleaver crime but a simple theft.

    The word Hacker is used to increase the ratings, that is all.

    Leave a comment:

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