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Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

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  • #46
    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

    Originally posted by xor View Post
    Palin a side what about if I get your phone number and do a full blown credit/back ground check on you. I go to say Intellisearch, buy this information legally and then in turn post it to Usenet do I go to jail? Have I done anything wrong?
    I'm not sure that I can actually give an answer on that. It's possible that you may have violated the TOS of Intellisearch, but since I haven't read their TOS, I don't know. I'd think that you could possibly be held liable in a Civil matter for such activity.

    Back to Palin, what about the "good Samaritan" that went onto her account and re-changed the password in an attempt to notify & protect her; should they go to jail?
    Again, I don't know. Some states have Good Samaritan laws on the books, I don't know if they would apply to this or not. Generally, those laws apply to someone helping someone in a crash or such and that they cannot be sued if they made an honest effort help but ended up hurting instead. Like pulling some from a burning car, but they had an injured spine. The injured technically could not sue because the Good Samaritan may have caused greater injury while at the same time saving their life.

    Does it apply to computer crime? I don't know.

    I also just wanted to say that if my attempt at satire offended anyone, I'm sorry. I often try and use humor to bring up serious subjects and get people talking. One of the things I like about the Defcon community is that you can have a Fed and a guy with tattoos all over his body get together without trying to kill one another. In fact they actually get a long,
    I hope that I'm not offending anyone either. But we've talked before about how computer crimes make us all look bad, that's why I've been so staunchly pressing this, because I don't think we should be blaming her for being the victim. It's easy for us (as a group of knowledgeable IT people) to say that she shouldn't be using Yahoo for her personal account. But I'm fairly certain there are millions of average people that don't realize that.

    Accusations of improper use aside, this isn't her fault. Especially now that we know it wasn't a weak password that did it, but it was Yahoo's lame password recovery tool. You cannot expect someone that isn't up on computer security to know that those things aren't safe. After all, if you read Yahoo's documents on the password recovery tool, they lead you to believe it is. She probably never gave it a thought that someone would/could use that to get into her account.

    I believe there was something released a few weeks ago on Security Focus regarding many sites using the same personal questions for password recovery, and how easily it could be to crack multiple account using that information. I'm fairly sure that Sarah Palin isn't reading Security Focus on a weekly basis.
    A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

      https://forum.defcon.org/showthread....hlight=privacy

      I didn't think I was crazy when I thought this community didn't like to have hackers portrayed in a bad light.

      Everything political aside, why am I the only one that's concerned that the media saying hackers did this to Palin is a bad thing? This has been my point the entire time.
      A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

        Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
        Problem is, 'nothing' wasn't happening. This thread got started, and she was pretty much ridiculed for using a yahoo account. Instead of people being upset that her privacy was invaded and the entire hacker community looks bad because of it. If nothing was done, this thread wouldn't exist.
        ahh, i thought your angel was "why are we not speaking up" not "who cares cus it's a yahoo acount."

        my mistake apparently ;)

        Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
        If you have a source says there is an investigation I'd be interested in reading it. So far, everything that I have read have been nothing but accusation and hearsay.

        IMO, if she is being investigated for such, then probably any public official with a private email address should be as well. Like I said, I suspect Nancy Pelosi has been using hers as well. The proof that I have is probably about as strong as any proof that the people that started accusing Palin have.
        admittedly im not 100% up to date with what the feds are doing about the situation as a whole (ive only herd the ss, the feds, and the doj are looking into the hack) i know the issue was being discussed by the government, and had already become a small source of controversy before she was even announced as running for vice president.

        http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/526281.html
        http://gawker.com/5051599/why-did-pa...-account-again

        in all seriousness, id think about bringing what information you have on Nancy Pelosi to light depending on how passionately you feel about the situation.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

          admittedly im not 100% up to date with what the feds are doing about the situation as a whole (ive only herd the ss, the feds, and the doj are looking into the hack) i know the issue was being discussed by the government, and had already become a small source of controversy before she was even announced as running for vice president.

          http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/526281.html
          http://gawker.com/5051599/why-did-pa...-account-again

          in all seriousness, id think about bringing what information you have on Nancy Pelosi to light depending on how passionately you feel about the situation.
          To use the gawker as a reference, IMO is not really valid. After reading through the ADN article, there's an awful lot of 'shoulds' and 'coulds' but not a lot of fact. So if there is an investigation, I will stand behind whatever it reveals.

          I happen to work for a public entity, I have three email accounts there, I have three through my ISP, I have a yahoo and gmail accounts, and I probably have some that I've forgotten about. So I can understand what was said about attempting to reduce the number of communication devices one has to carry. I don't even carry my personal cell phone anymore and do everything through my Blackberry (yes it's permitted by my entity).

          But I do make it a point that whomever I'm corresponding with goes through the proper email account and my emails are properly segregated. I make it a point that anything that goes to work related people never goes through my personal accounts. Is it so unreasonable to believe that others could be doing the same thing?
          A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

            Originally posted by streaker69 View Post
            Everything political aside, why am I the only one that's concerned that the media saying hackers did this to Palin is a bad thing? This has been my point the entire time.
            Why no comment from me on this topic of the thtread until now?

            The super-condensed version of The Art of War: "Choose your battles wisely."

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

              He bit, jump him!
              if it gets me nowhere, I'll go there proud; and I'm gonna go there free.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

                Most "Good Samaritan" laws are specific to rendering aid to someone injured in a accident.

                As to the person who reset the account to protect it for Pallin, technically that is also an illegal access of the account. However, there is defense that used in criminal law of committing one crime it prevent a greater crime or evil from occurring. This defense not used often and rarely works, but it might apply here if the person who rest the account is charged with a computer crime.
                Thorn
                "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

                  Well this case will give the lawyers, judges & our law makers something do to. We mite even see some real legislation come out of it clarifying some of the issues discussed here. If you listen to the Right minded news media the information is trivial which means they really can't throw the book at these folks criminally, or civilly. If you listen to the Left minded media they keep stirring the pot looking for some wrong doing. Which could end up getting the alleged Anonymous folks in a lot of trouble if it pans out.

                  I hope that everyone comes out of it ok.

                  xor

                  Ps When it comes to computer crime with the exception of say kiddie porn I think the civil liability is a much greater deterrent than the criminal charges. Of course no one thinks of that before hand. With jail over crowding non-violent offenders will probably be paroled a lot quicker than the violent ones. Of course unless it's Texas then everyone is screwed and they will just build more prisons.
                  Last edited by xor; September 20, 2008, 10:09.
                  Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

                    Originally posted by xor View Post
                    Ps When it comes to computer crime with the exception of say kiddie porn I think the civil liability is a much greater deterrent than the criminal charges.
                    Interesting.. I believe that would allow for a solid business model built around stealing and selling information at the expense of civil suits ... kind of like the insurance industry but funner.
                    if it gets me nowhere, I'll go there proud; and I'm gonna go there free.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

                      Originally posted by xor View Post
                      Well this case will give the lawyers, judges & our law makers something do to. We mite even see some real legislation come out of it clarifying some of the issues discussed here.
                      I wouldn't hold your breath. More legislation is exactly what we don't need...what is desperately needed is judicial interpretation of the existing federal statutes. While certainly not the kind of case I'd be looking for to take to appeal, it certainly is better than those charged with various child pornography violations in conjunction with the specific computer law violations.

                      Some asshead 4chan member getting into the personal account of a public figure isn't going to be sympathetic to any jury or judge. Also I fail to see how this falls into the fuzzy areas of existing law which would bring about solid interpretation opportunities.
                      jur1st, esq.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

                        Originally posted by jur1st View Post
                        Some asshead 4chan member getting into the personal account of a public figure isn't going to be sympathetic to any jury or judge. Also I fail to see how this falls into the fuzzy areas of existing law which would bring about solid interpretation opportunities.
                        I think the fuzziness that most people are wanting to see is that committing of a crime to prove the alleged wrong doing of a public official. But that just comes down to the ends does not justify the means. After all the last thing the internet needs is a bunch of Charles Bronson's running around hacking everyone they perceive to be committing a crime.
                        A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

                          First of all, I want to thank streaker69 for reasoned comments on the subject. I had assumed, probably as the media sources I used wished me to assume, that she was using that particular email address for work. The distinction between "she used to use personal email for work" and "she is using a work-looking email" was lost on me.

                          Originally posted by streaker69
                          Where is the outrage from the supposed hacker community that criminals are being called hackers giving all of us bad names.
                          Personally, I don't feel it is worth fighting over semantics. I see this same wasted energy in other causes, as well.[1] You try to take a well-understood label in society, subvert it, and then, on top of that, one of the new labels you wish to apply is also a racial slur? Um, you have fun with that.

                          [1] Did you know that "queer" is no longer acceptable for describing someone outside the binary boy/girl system? It's now more of a political label. *sigh*

                          Originally posted by Vyrus
                          i take offense when the term "African American" is used to describe black American citizens
                          First of all, I wish more people would take into account the intentions of the original speaker before taking offense; not everyone has oodles of free time to understand the minutiae of the quickly-shifting political climate. Someone using the term African American is almost always attempting to refer to the group in the manner that they have been taught is the most respectful. If you wish to take offense, get upset that Jesse Jackson was so successful in redefining your label.

                          Second, the label is often still useful when separating the race (e.g., African American, Caucasian) from the culture (e.g., black) so the context of use should be considered.

                          Originally posted by streaker69
                          The ends does not justify the means. The person that did this is no better than a vigilante. If there really was sufficient evidence to show that she was improperly using her email, then there should be an investigation opened.
                          While I agree with you in principle, I am jaded enough to believe that when the stakes are important enough then public outrage can be a useful tool in pushing forward that investigation (instead of the issue being quietly sidelined and ignored). It is especially useful when there isn't time for a true investigation or the outcome will be decided by public opinion anyway.

                          In either case, it doesn't apply here. As streaker69 has said, her personal information being published without any indication that there was implicating business usage is just wrong and illegal. Even if there had been evidence against her, only that should have been made public, not the entirety of the account.

                          Originally posted by streaker69
                          Some states have Good Samaritan laws on the books, I don't know if they would apply to this or not.
                          I can't imagine that any state's Good Samaritan law would apply. I would hope that such laws would absolve those attempting to help from liability for any consequences, not shield people from prosecution for committing a crime in a the process.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

                            Streaker is correct and he has held the line on yet another social issue of behavioral degrigation. Bravo Streaker. When we fail to "make a case" for such behavior it makes us accomplices. Fractional bad behavior often leads to worse behavior left unpunished. While it seems like no biggie to many of you, Streaker also points out the "hacker cloud" that the media brands us all with. I've made the point the term is used incorrectly and that "cracker" is the correct usage for a intentional law breaker, however the masses are stupid and don't want to see any difference and "cracker" remains a white trash slang term. Nevertheless, this is more of an issue of "stupid is as stupid does" and there is much blame to go around. After reading all the posts on this thread I've concluded your all correct, but from your personal points of view, your professional trades, upbringing, etc.. Palin by her own actions has learned, and so too have we all.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

                              The (possibly) responsible party is caught
                              It's not stupid, it's advanced.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Sarah Palin: hacked by Anonymous

                                Originally posted by YenTheFirst View Post
                                This is going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

                                If this kid did it, will he get the same treatment if an average person (meaning not a person that's politically connected)? This isn't one that is going to be able to be swept under the carpet and forgotten about either, he attacked a public (very public) figure. He should have every charge possible thrown at him. But chances are, he'll be offered a plea bargain and just end up with probation, whereas someone else doing something similar or even less offensive would end up in the FPMITAP.

                                Watching this case will determine if the Chappaquiddick rules still apply to those politically connected or not.
                                A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

                                Comment

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