Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

[TheCotMan]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Faye: please stop bringing up that incident. It looks to me like you are trolling, and that is a rule violation. This is your warning on trolling. (Make this a second warning on trolling..) 2 strikes. Do not troll.

Everyone else: Please do not feed the troll or encourage the troll to troll about the past.

Now, back to the topic:
Who are the organizers for the newbie track?

What is your next step?

[SecurityBarbie]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

...........

[Dallas]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Just to clarify, are we talking intro (what to do/not to do Thursday) and Below, breakouts on Friday morning?

Hacking General
Social Engineering - Get some social skillz geek!
Intro To Crypto - You bletchly in my park? That's disgusting!
Hardware hacking basics - Wait, why do I need to groun... BZZT!
Deploying your own attack network - how you can legally learn to hack on the cheap
Landing that coveted entry level security job.
Hacking and the Law
Wireless hacking - They're sniffing my what?



I can help with SocEng and Landing entry-level sec job......

I would think that putting this in a panel-type track would be very helpful so that a group and add and collaborate when answering noob questions....


I also saw the 'DC 21-76: Defcon Survival' ..... I would like to understand more of what this would 'teach' so to speak.

[SecurityBarbie]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Just to clarify, are we talking intro (what to do/not to do Thursday) and Below, breakouts on Friday morning?

I don't know either exactly.... that's pretty much what I'm asking. I was just clarifying from what I saw on the site already.

[valkyrie]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Okie people, this beast has grown multiple heads and the only thing to do with a beast of that nature is to kill it, cut off all the heads save one, or create separate beasts. In the interest of two really great ideas, We wish to create separate beasts.

In my semi-official capacity of speaking for the "pontifical" we of the Introduction to DefCon Cerebral Eye Candy speed talk, I am requesting that the moderator split this off into a separate thread.

This new thread will present the pontifical we's concept of a newbie speed talk to introduce newbies and interested not-so-newbies to the wonders and vagaries of Defcon. If you wish to participate as a presenter, please visit the new thread and/or contact Highwiz. Please check the new thread for deadlines, etc.

While the pontifical we appreciates the idea of a "Newbie" track at DefCon and thinks it is definitely something that should be considered, the pontifical we determined that the pristine train of good intention became seriously derailed from the original intention and now we wish to get that original train back on the track.

Moderator, if you will, please call the new thread, "Pre-DefCon Speed Talk" for want of any l33tr tag at this time.

Regards,

Valkyrie

[TheCotMan]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Better would be a forum for this or these as events, as this makes them available to hold many threads and many discussions for planning.

Get a nod from DT on both, and I will create both.

Okie people, this beast has grown multiple heads and the only thing to do with a beast of that nature is to kill it, cut off all the heads save one, or create separate beasts. In the interest of two really great ideas, We wish to create separate beasts.

In my semi-official capacity of speaking for the "pontifical" we of the Introduction to DefCon Cerebral Eye Candy speed talk, I am requesting that the moderator split this off into a separate thread.

This new thread will present the pontifical we's concept of a newbie speed talk to introduce newbies and interested not-so-newbies to the wonders and vagaries of Defcon. If you wish to participate as a presenter, please visit the new thread and/or contact Highwiz. Please check the new thread for deadlines, etc.

While the pontifical we appreciates the idea of a "Newbie" track at DefCon and thinks it is definitely something that should be considered, the pontifical we determined that the pristine train of good intention became seriously derailed from the original intention and now we wish to get that original train back on the track.

Moderator, if you will, please call the new thread, "Pre-DefCon Speed Talk" for want of any l33tr tag at this time.

Regards,

Valkyrie

[P33V3]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Should we have a Goon safety presentation? Important things like:

Don't drink until you can't see and them stand in the Vegas sun.
Don't piss Flea off, in fact when passing him in the halls look forward and don't breathe.
Don't try to hack the slot machines and hotel safety equipment.
Don't stand in the fire exits like a idiot.
Banshee can probably kick your ass, so leave her alone.

[LosT]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

I'm new. Orientate me.

[Dallas]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

For consideration..

Short History of Defcon and founders
Past Locations, why it moved
Overview of traditions and events (TBBQ, CTF, Shoot, meetup, poolcon..)
What are the diff badges
What is a Goon and why should you be concerned.
Who is this Priest and what are bunnies?
Who is Flea, Noid, others...
What is diff between official and unofficial events..
Overview of groups and organizations
Overview of parties or meetups by other groups and organizations
Why should you fear a magic marker
Being respectful, avoid arrogance, participate..
Have fun..

I'm new. Orientate me.

[erehwon]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Might I suggest a few more for consideration?

Visiting a desert city and proper hydration
The soap in your bathroom isn't just for washing your hands!

Gamey geeks was tolerable at say Defcon 5...

While we're at it, there is always a large group that attends Defcon just for the parties and are pretty oblivious to all forms of security, one fellow that would be nice to see is Bob Arno (warning, loud website) who is probably the best expert on pick-pockets.

[LosT]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Has anyone considered that part of the joy, the fun, and the experience of Defcon is learning about a lot of this stuff the first few years you go?

I mean come on, we're hackers for heavens sake, let's not get too crazy here. We can't give away all of the mystery. Hell that's part of the appeal to a certain mindset- the mindset we are hoping to attract= maybe we'd have fewer asshats if we didn't do threads like this?

just thinking out loud.

[astcell]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

There is SO much to know and learn! We will give them the tools to explore, kind of like teaching a child how to walk, and now they can get into things faster. We won't hand them the store, but we will point them in the general direction and give them a push.

Many people do not even know some events take place because they cannot find the skybox access, they do not know they can go out back and see the dunking booth, or they are misinformed otherwise.

Getting your bearings was much easier at the AP. The groups were split into the three pools, and the hallways, and various party rooms which were plainly marked. It is quite difficult to simply walk through the Riv to find a party at random. The folks on any given floor may not even be Defcon attendees. Once in a tower and floor we are pretty much segregated from the rest of the gang.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Has anyone considered that part of the joy, the fun, and the experience of Defcon is learning about a lot of this stuff the first few years you go?

I mean come on, we're hackers for heavens sake, let's not get too crazy here. We can't give away all of the mystery. Hell that's part of the appeal to a certain mindset- the mindset we are hoping to attract= maybe we'd have fewer asshats if we didn't do threads like this?

just thinking out loud.

I'm not an organizer for this, but if something like this was offered the first time I went to Defcon, I might have attended it.

I did enjoy the choices I made when attending Defcon, and the proof of this is how I kept returning several years in a row. After about five different Defcon, spending most of my time in the presentations, I decided to be more social. I wasn't introduced to Defcon through any regulars, or well known people. I arrived with a person who enjoyed the novelty of a Hacker Convention. They weren't even a hacker-types, but instead something more like a tourist, there to gawk over the crazy hackers at Defcon and see what they would do next. My first was their second, and their last. They choose to opt for the craziness of Trekkie cons,, Comic Book cons, and Anime cons and be tourists at those places. My friend and I kept returning, but were always outsiders, and not really interested in the contest or events. A few times, over the years, my friend and I tried to start conversations with various people, but found there were too many people that were clueless, and we made the incorrect assumption that all of these drunk people were not skilled, and they were only there to get drunk. (Of course, we found we were only half right. ;-)

This lead to an understanding that Defcon wasn't to meet brilliant people that think differently. It was to hear presentations from various people with various ideas, and to meet up with people that knew each other online, through BBS, through other security conferences, or professional life. If you were attending Defcon to meet people for the first time to discuss ideas, you were too late*.

(*Though this is no longer true, and "back then" it wasn't 100% true, but common enough through our experiences to be a viable conclusion at the time. This became mostly true, because talking to Drunk people who are on vacation provide 2 barriers for discussion: drunkenness and their being on vacation from work, which is a topic you might be looking to bring up. ;-)

Now back to the topic of people looking to create a Defcon Orientation of sorts:
It isn't something that is being forced on people, and it is voluntary. Anyone interested in doing things are their own can still do that. This is totally run by volunteers, and new attendees will use it or they won't. From my point of view, the existence of such an event is not going to harm my Defcon experience, and for those that choose to attend it, it might expose them to what is available so they can have a more enjoyable time.

This event demonstrates there is still freedom at Defcon to start something new, and try to make Defcon better. We all have different opinions on what will make Defcon better (and I am still waiting for my solid gold jet pack that uses the disembodied souls of rejected orphans as a fuel source.) Be this a success or failure, it doesn't harm my Defcon experience, so why should I care about it being created or not?

Good luck to the event organizers. :-)

[valkyrie]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

I'm not an organizer for this, but if something like this was offered the first time I went to Defcon, I might have attended it.

I did enjoy the choices I made when attending Defcon, and the proof of this is how I kept returning several years in a row. After about five different Defcon, spending most of my time in the presentations, I decided to be more social. I wasn't introduced to Defcon through any regulars, or well known people. I arrived with a person who enjoyed the novelty of a Hacker Convention. They weren't even a hacker-types, but instead something more like a tourist, there to gawk over the crazy hackers at Defcon and see what they would do next. My first was their second, and their last. They choose to opt for the craziness of Trekkie cons,, Comic Book cons, and Anime cons and be tourists at those places. My friend and I kept returning, but were always outsiders, and not really interested in the contest or events. A few times, over the years, my friend and I tried to start conversations with various people, but found there were too many people that were clueless, and we made the incorrect assumption that all of these drunk people were not skilled, and they were only there to get drunk. (Of course, we found we were only half right. ;-)

This lead to an understanding that Defcon wasn't to meet brilliant people that think differently. It was to hear presentations from various people with various ideas, and to meet up with people that knew each other online, through BBS, through other security conferences, or professional life. If you were attending Defcon to meet people for the first time to discuss ideas, you were too late*.

(*Though this is no longer true, and "back then" it wasn't 100% true, but common enough through our experiences to be a viable conclusion at the time. This became mostly true, because talking to Drunk people who are on vacation provide 2 barriers for discussion: drunkenness and their being on vacation from work, which is a topic you might be looking to bring up. ;-)

Now back to the topic of people looking to create a Defcon Orientation of sorts:
It isn't something that is being forced on people, and it is voluntary. Anyone interested in doing things are their own can still do that. This is totally run by volunteers, and new attendees will use it or they won't. From my point of view, the existence of such an event is not going to harm my Defcon experience, and for those that choose to attend it, it might expose them to what is available so they can have a more enjoyable time.

This event demonstrates there is still freedom at Defcon to start something new, and try to make Defcon better. We all have different opinions on what will make Defcon better (and I am still waiting for my solid gold jet pack that uses the disembodied souls of rejected orphans as a fuel source.) Be this a success or failure, it doesn't harm my Defcon experience, so why should I care about it being created or not?

Good luck to the event organizers. :-)

I am not an organizer. I am an agitater. If I can find one, ONE. That one is enough.

Regards,

Valkyrie
__________________________________________
sapere aude

[TheCotMan]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

I am not an organizer. I am an agitater. If I can find one, ONE. That one is enough.

You are not contributing to this event in any way? No ideas, or planning?