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**seeess** · March 16, 2012, 23:24

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

I thought one of the things requested after last year was a break between the two sessions. Since people go out and take down their targets, and have to pack up their gear to let the next session in it can take 15 min or so.

Can we maybe do 1 hr 20 min sessions with a 20 min break between them (extending the day 1 hour)? Or maybe 1:10 sessions with 10 in between by stealing 30 min from the safety talk (will that really take an hour?)

**wrøng!** · March 17, 2012, 08:43

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

Originally posted by Deviant Ollam View Post

One thing i do plan on quite strongly is the fact that a decision has to be made between alcohol and night shooting. Some people like to see muzzle flashes once the sun goes down. Other people want to pop open beers and enjoy them with their burgers. I'm fine with either option, but not both... there is no easy way to police who is drinking vs. who is not, and i just don't want to deal with that hassle.

Similar to the bowl of car keys at a house party we could have a bowl of firing pins

**inert** · March 17, 2012, 09:44

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

I would like to join in. I would like to bring the AK and .45, but I am flying. Anyone else flying and checking in firearms?

**inert** · March 17, 2012, 10:01

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

Originally posted by inert View Post

I would like to join in. I would like to bring the AK and .45, but I am flying. Anyone else flying and checking in firearms?

I posted a bit early. I found the other thread, and the page of experiences that some folks had with traveling with firearms. My flight should be arriving just in time for me to check into my hotel and head out with you guys. Can I carpool with someone?

**Bbox** · March 17, 2012, 11:33

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

Originally posted by wrøng! View Post

Similar to the bowl of car keys at a house party we could have a bowl of firing pins

Careful , in my part of the country throwing your car keys in a bowl at a party is for something other than safety ;)

**sintax_error** · March 17, 2012, 14:12

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

Originally posted by Deviant Ollam View Post

One thing i do plan on quite strongly is the fact that a decision has to be made between alcohol and night shooting. Some people like to see muzzle flashes once the sun goes down. Other people want to pop open beers and enjoy them with their burgers. I'm fine with either option, but not both... there is no easy way to police who is drinking vs. who is not, and i just don't want to deal with that hassle.

Agreed. Muzzle flashes after dark are awesome, but not awesome enough to have firearms fun still going on while alcohol is being consumed, regardless of who's designated what. I'd go with the notion of if there is to be a (semi)formal/organized kickback campfire burger beer time, most people partaking aren't going to want gunshots going off in the surrounding area anyway. There are plenty of places that one can go do night shooting after the fact if so desired.

On the other side of that coin though, if it's agreed that there shouldn't be alcohol at the site to begin with, that's a different story. I think it would have to be a matter of consensus though.

**FirmWarez** · March 17, 2012, 14:20

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

DC20 shoot. "From Dusk til Dawn". Hmmm, got some serious handloading ahead to meet that challenge! 9mm, 147gr, SJHP.

Suggestion for beer'o'clock: zip ties through actions and/or mag wells.

Edited to add (because even tho I'm a tribe member, it's St. Patty's day, and a lovely day for a Guinness)...

My other "must make" annual shoot includes post shoot beer. A lot of stamp collectors, so you know they (in general) have ample experience points. It can be done, and it can be done so that everyone feels safe. I know I'd personally like to see a cold beer at the end of the day; it helps me recite Robert W. Service around the camp fire...but so much of that depends on the personalities.

If others want to make this particular ATF transition happen, there are ways to do it safe, and I'll help if I can.

**sintax_error** · March 17, 2012, 14:39

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

Originally posted by FirmWarez View Post

Suggestion for beer'o'clock: zip ties through actions and/or mag wells.

That sounds like a plan, however, some people are mighty particular about such things... Is there anyone here who would be absolutely against a zip tie going into your iron when shooting time is over? I'd be fine with it as long as I'm the one doing it.

**inert** · March 17, 2012, 15:49

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

Originally posted by sintax_error View Post

That sounds like a plan, however, some people are mighty particular about such things... Is there anyone here who would be absolutely against a zip tie going into your iron when shooting time is over? I'd be fine with it as long as I'm the one doing it.

I am cool with that. That sounds like the reasonable thing to do.

**wrøng!** · March 17, 2012, 17:15

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

The 45MM cannon guy might have a problem with that

**Deviant Ollam** · March 18, 2012, 14:23

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

i think that we are all pretty much smart enough people to know that when the range is cold (and when the beers are cold) you're pretty much on your honor to have your guns cased up.

my position would generally be "no handling of firearms once the socializing starts"

of course this does make things a little awkward for anyone who is carrying. i don't really want to deny people the right to open or conceal carry at any point if that's their thing. (maybe insist on carrying in Condition Two?)

however, i think that any unholstered or uncased firearms are cause for serious ramifications... and if anyone actually fires off a round for any reason, that might be grounds to ask them to leave outright.

still just feeling all of this out, we have plenty of time to agree upon what the established rules will be.

anyone care to describe how you have done things at similar camping events in the past?

**wrøng!** · March 18, 2012, 23:24

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

Originally posted by Deviant Ollam View Post

i don't really want to deny people the right to open or conceal carry at any point if that's their thing.

I don't know about LV / NV, but it may not even matter what the group wants to do regarding mixing drinking and firearm carrying:Around here it's illegal to CCW / OC under the influence. Honestly I would rather shoot at night than drink. How many times do you get the opportunity to shoot in the desert? There will be plenty of time for drinking back at the Rio.

**FirmWarez** · March 20, 2012, 09:30

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

Originally posted by Deviant Ollam View Post

...
anyone care to describe how you have done things at similar camping events in the past?

I feel like I'm posting too much lately, hope my SNR is acceptable.

Anyway, at my other annual shoot and subgun match, range goes cold, weapons are cased and put away, cold beers opened. We've never had any problems, but that event is held at a semi-secret location -- the location is only announced to people who directly contact the host. And, for the most part, people know each other or are friends of friends.

One question I would have for this event is how many people are thinking about camping? Let's be honest, you can (usually) tell right away who you'd be comfortable with, and let's see who is really planning on spending a night out in the desert with the wild burros and yotes.

If it were my show? Wednesday night range goes cold. People pack up. Those heading back to the "civilization" of Vegas leave. No DUIs please. Those who are camping put the gun cases away, get started on dinner and settle in for the night. Then, only after food is cooking, guns are away, and the rush of shooting has calmed down, do we open a cold one. No open carry, but, again in my ideal world, one or two folks I know and trusted would have appropriate tools easily accessible. It would also be nice, in my ideal world, if the situation were like many such trips I've been on -- it's not an all night drunk fest, just friends with a couple of beers. We will have a big day tomorrow, and plenty of DCXX over the next few days.

Shooting at night is fun, but the danger level does go up. Even if the Weds dusk shoot goes in to the dark, I still see the question of beer being answered as above. If you're camping, then after the range is cold and we're all ready, it's beer-thirty.

**Bbox** · March 21, 2012, 10:46

Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

As strictly an observer, (Also being a paranoid Brooklyn Boy) my concerns with an openly known location and people knowing there will be drinking going on and a rule that firearms will be stowed (or wire tied) for safety, I would suggest a few Designated Safety people that agree not to participate in drinking and have access to firearms just in case any fools (read very ignorant and stupid people) think it might be an easy target for stealing expensive gear.

I hate to look at things in such a negative way, however I have seen this type of criminal activity before.

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DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

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