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DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

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  • #16
    Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

    Deviant, I am unsure at this time if I'll be making it to the shoot to be an RSO. Once I figure out scheduling stuff I will make sure you're the first to know as I've been one the last 2 years for you. Good chance I'll still try to buy a shirt though!
    Saving the world one computer at a time...

    or possibly destroying, I haven't figured that out yet.

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    • #17
      Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

      Deviant, I wanted to see if you had thoughts on altering the schedule. I wanted to make sure any changes get in early enough that they don't affect everyone's plans. Last year there were some suggestions to extend the time between shifts.

      Originally posted by seeess View Post
      I thought one of the things requested after last year was a break between the two sessions. Since people go out and take down their targets, and have to pack up their gear to let the next session in it can take 15 min or so.

      Can we maybe do 1 hr 20 min sessions with a 20 min break between them (extending the day 1 hour)? Or maybe 1:10 sessions with 10 in between by stealing 30 min from the safety talk (will that really take an hour?)
      Oh and one other thing that I think you talked about after last year was an additional table off the firing line for everything except guns. So while the line is clear people can load mags etc.
      Last edited by seeess; March 21, 2012, 20:03.

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      • #18
        Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

        Originally posted by seeess View Post
        Oh and one other thing that I think you talked about after last year was an additional table off the firing line for everything except guns. So while the line is clear people can load mags etc.
        +1 for this idea.
        |

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        • #19
          Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

          I hope no one brings tracers or starts a fire at night or other issues to ruin it for us daytime people.

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          • #20
            Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

            Originally posted by astcell View Post
            I hope no one brings tracers or starts a fire at night or other issues to ruin it for us daytime people.
            This addresses posts I've made.

            Let me state:

            1) I said "I will bring tracers for my Uzi". That's a fact. I'm not going to go through my big box of shoot 9mm and pull out the tracers. That doesn't mean they will be used. Based on what I've read they won't be used, since this is a BLM site and they don't like them. So for all: while tracers are indeed legal in Nevada, the shoot is on BLM land and they will ticket you for shooting them. Otherwise actual use in the desert is highly dependent on initial conditions, just like firearms in general.

            2) I also said something about "around the campfire". Figure of speech, just reference to being with good people in the outback. I've humped way too many indian packs to want to deal with those potential problems.

            If you have a couple of minutes find me at the shoot and shake my hand -- apparently people tend to think I'm far less of an idiot in real life than on the forums.
            TSA luvs my Uzi.

            "We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot

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            • #21
              Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

              Does sand catch on fire easily?
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              • #22
                Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

                There's far more scrub out there than a midwest guy would think, and when it goes, it goes. If it wasn't BLM land, the backstop/hill at the shoot site would probably be safe for tracers, but where people put close range targets, no.
                TSA luvs my Uzi.

                "We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot

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                • #23
                  Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

                  Originally posted by FirmWarez View Post
                  There's far more scrub out there than a midwest guy would think, and when it goes, it goes. If it wasn't BLM land, the backstop/hill at the shoot site would probably be safe for tracers, but where people put close range targets, no.
                  Fair enough
                  |

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                  • #24
                    Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

                    Originally posted by FirmWarez View Post
                    apparently people tend to think I'm far less of an idiot in real life than on the forums.
                    People think your pretty sharp even on the forums, but I will attest that after talking with you in person there is no doubt you are no idiot.

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                    • #25
                      Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

                      general replies to a lot of good points being raised here...

                      1. drinking vs. shooting at night - i feel that a night shoot might be good for future years, but we're just trying this out at the moment and this first time around it'd be best if the "dark" shooting simply takes place as the sun sets... not during the overnight time. once people who are leaving leave and those who are camping are camping, then it's beer o'clock.

                      locals are saying that any alcohol consumption in NV is illegal if you're carrying? meh, kind of silly to me, but the law is what it is. (here in PA they take .08 BAC as the rule of the land for driving as well as carrying. makes much more sense to me, since you can actually go out to dinner and so forth with friends and not disarm and all that other bullshit)

                      2. being totally disarmed at night - i feel Bbox made a good point about how an event which is publicly-known and happening out in the desert with people who are discussing being disarmed at night might be unwise. i think that some of us will prefer being armed to being boozed... and i'm fine with that. we'll see what's what on-site, but i think people can rest assured that there will be a fine defensive posture at night.

                      3. more tables behind lines - i like this idea, too... and i am hoping that with the greater potential for registration fees (since we're running more sessions) that i can afford extra tables, indeed.

                      4. shoot session schedules - yes, i do plan to pad things out a bit with some extra time for target check and change-over in between shooting bouts. i'll post a revised schedule when i get back to the USA and am not in third-world internet hell.
                      "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
                      - Trent Reznor

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                      • #26
                        Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

                        I have a Nevada CC permit. It's legal to drink, but not to be drunk, while carrying.

                        ETA- I think honor system will work, without needing to zip tie or anything like that. Really everyone I've ever met at the defcon shoot has struck me as the responsible type, mixed with plenty of authoritative types who are more than willing to intervene successfully if something stupid is happening.
                        Last edited by Gigs; March 30, 2012, 17:58.

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                        • #27
                          Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

                          Where I stand:

                          There is no where that I know of where is it legal to handle firearms while using alcohol. So if everyone follows the law, we are good, don't, face the consequences.

                          Lessons learned from raves(sort of), shooters, people on the line, watching the line, ...etc wear glow sticks. Helps keep people safe, identifiable, and they are cheap.

                          Regarding fire, as in the roof the roof is on fire. Next to the shoot last year there was at least an acre or 2 of blackened earth, how it happened, not sure, so yes shit will burn, and well. If I could ever manage to post my long distance wide angle shots of the shoot from the ridge above the shoot to defconpics, you could see that.

                          There must be at least 10 near by camp sites, campers could go there.

                          Don't have an opinion on anything else.

                          There is a general assumption that no one else will be out there, I think that's wrong not to consider the stranger factor. Who would have ever thought a dude would have showed up at the Hacker Pimps party with a knife. Shit happens, and often.

                          xor
                          Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

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                          • #28
                            Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

                            Originally posted by xor View Post
                            There is no where that I know of where is it legal to handle firearms while using alcohol.
                            i do not believe this to be correct. many states have laws which prohibit the drinking of any alcohol at all while carrying. other states (FL and PA are two that come to mind) make it illegal to be incapacitated by drink (.08 BAC is how they define it) while carrying, but the mere act of "utilizing" is not illegal outright.

                            i do not know of jurisdictions where they differentiate between being in control of a firearm versus handling versus shooting, etc. usually it's just the "bearing" of the item that is in the law, i believe. whether carrying, sport shooting, or shooting in an act of defense... all the same rules, i think.

                            I do not know the NV law. but i will be advising anyone who is carrying to not be drinking.


                            Originally posted by xor View Post
                            glow sticks.
                            we're hoping to have the shooting wrapped up right around the magic hour when daylight is just about gone... so hopefully we won't need these. but i'll look into maybe having a large batch of them available just because why not. could be a good idea, and cheap.


                            Originally posted by xor View Post
                            There must be at least 10 near by camp sites, campers could go there.
                            i know that i don't feel like asking people to go somewhere else to camp. if it's possible to camp right there, by all means i'd like to.


                            Originally posted by xor View Post
                            wrong not to consider the stranger factor. Who would have ever thought a dude would have showed up at the Hacker Pimps party with a knife
                            yeah. this is true. at least a few of us are likely to be armed as we camp. and i'm not opposed to telling people not to be.
                            "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
                            - Trent Reznor

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                            • #29
                              Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

                              Since I was not able to participate last year and I do not recall anything specifically being said on the subject, what type of targets are recommended? I saw mention of fruit, golf balls, ice, etc.. so I am going to assume that there are little no restrictions as to the type of targets we can bring and shoot and that there are no target stands at pre-set ranges that people could use to hold paper targets.

                              So - I am open to suggestions as to what I should start considering to use as targets, as opposed to shooting at rocks out in the desert, which I assume is always an option.
                              DaKahuna
                              ___________________
                              Will Hack for Bandwidth

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                              • #30
                                Re: DEFCON 20 Shoot will run Wednesday Dusk AND Thursday Dawn

                                Originally posted by Deviant Ollam View Post
                                i do not believe this to be correct. many states have laws which prohibit the drinking of any alcohol at all while carrying. other states (FL and PA are two that come to mind) make it illegal to be incapacitated by drink (.08 BAC is how they define it) while carrying, but the mere act of "utilizing" is not illegal outright.
                                PA doesnt even have the concept of a legal limit for firearm use (drinking is allowed while carrying), but your carry permit can be pulled for being a "habitual drunkard" or something.

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