Organization

[Falln]

WTF is going on with the organization of this Defcon? All the talks are being moved around or cancelled, with NO NOTICE! We talked to numerous goons and they didn't have an idea of what was going on either. People pay their money to see certain talks. This is just ridiculous.

[TheCotMan]

WTF is going on with the organization of this Defcon? All the talks are being moved around or cancelled, with NO NOTICE! We talked to numerous goons and they didn't have an idea of what was going on either. People pay their money to see certain talks. This is just ridiculous.

Presentations get moved every year-- it is part of the norm. Some speakers get sick or drunk or "go missing" during their presentation slot and then those presentations get cancelled.

The best you can do to keep up with presentations has been to tune into one of the DefCon channels (sometimes re-broadcast in other location out of hotels rooms) to see where presentation have been moved.

I am not there this year, so I can't compare this year's changes to other years'.

[converge]

People pay their money to see certain talks. This is just ridiculous.

... STFU... I can understand being frustrated about not seeing a talk you had your heart set on, but seriously... if you are 'paying to see a certain talk', pony up the cash for Blackhat and stop whining about not getting the freebie you hoped for at the after-party. This is not McDonalds where you can bitch out the underpaid staff for getting ketchup on your precious McFillet .. shit happens; the goons are doing everything they can to flexibly tame fire.

[CyberSorcerer]

Well I guess you are a little bit wrong in mentioning BlackHat in the context now!

It seems the people that wanted to see "Micheal Lynns" presentation were SOL! Yes they did see a cut-down version of the presentation, but probably not what they wanted to see. Especially after paying the price they paid for attending BlackHat. Yes DefCom is cheaper so missing a speaker doesn't have exaclty the same effect on your bottom line as missing "or getting a cutup version" of a presentation that you have paid much more for.

If you think about it $80 for 3 days only amounts to $26.00 a day. Come on now, just one speakers event is worth that much, sense more that likely you can buy his/her book for probably $39-$49 dollars.

CyberSorcerer

[JoeTampa]

Still, how hard can it be for the schedule change to be radioed to the goons in each "major" location (Apollo, Parthenon, Tent, Pool, etc) and have them make an announcement? Even if they did it once during each presentation between the time they are notified and the (former) time of the talk, a boatload of people would be made aware. Are we supposed to go to the information booth to make sure that each presentation is still on?

So in other words, yes, I only paid $80, but it would cost Defcon nothing to be a tad proactive here. They are a creative bunch, I'm sure they can implement something to not only tackle this problem, but also the problem of forcing everyone out of the room to run back around and get in line again.

[stringslayer]

Still, how hard can it be for the schedule change to be radioed to the goons in each "major" location (Apollo, Parthenon, Tent, Pool, etc) and have them make an announcement? Even if they did it once during each presentation between the time they are notified and the (former) time of the talk, a boatload of people would be made aware. Are we supposed to go to the information booth to make sure that each presentation is still on?

So in other words, yes, I only paid $80, but it would cost Defcon nothing to be a tad proactive here. They are a creative bunch, I'm sure they can implement something to not only tackle this problem, but also the problem of forcing everyone out of the room to run back around and get in line again.

In a perfect world the schedule would be set in stone. For now, I think they are doing everything they can. They have a 1-800 number with interactive updates. (number is on page 12 of the Defcon booklet) The website is constantly being updated. Also, you can swing by the information booth. This is my first DefCon, and I am thoroughly impressed thus far.

[Dutch]

Still, how hard can it be for the schedule change to be radioed to the goons in each "major" location (Apollo, Parthenon, Tent, Pool, etc) and have them make an announcement? Even if they did it once during each presentation between the time they are notified and the (former) time of the talk, a boatload of people would be made aware. Are we supposed to go to the information booth to make sure that each presentation is still on?

So in other words, yes, I only paid $80, but it would cost Defcon nothing to be a tad proactive here. They are a creative bunch, I'm sure they can implement something to not only tackle this problem, but also the problem of forcing everyone out of the room to run back around and get in line again.

So by paying 80$ you expect the organizers to hold your hand, spoonfeed you, and generally enable you to disengage brain so you don't have to keep yourself informed about whats going on ?
Would you like an asswiping to go with that as well ?

Any Con is a dynamic event, things change, some within the organizers control, but most outside. Just like life. Deal with it, instead of going Whisky Mike Papa Hotel...

Dutch

[JoeTampa]

In a perfect world the schedule would be set in stone. For now, I think they are doing everything they can. They have a 1-800 number with interactive updates. (number is on page 12 of the Defcon booklet) The website is constantly being updated. Also, you can swing by the information booth. This is my first DefCon, and I am thoroughly impressed thus far.

Granted. I'm not saying that things will always go 100% smoothly. However, the 4pm talk today in the tent was changed, and I knew nothing about it until I got there and realized that it wasn't the talk that was originally scheduled. I called the interactive scheduler from the tent - it hadn't been updated. I went to the info booth and was told that it had indeed been switched. On Friday, announcements were made in at least two presentations that I attended in Apollo saying that the tent was about an hour (and later 30 mins) behind schedule. You're telling me that they couldn't announce that the 4pm presentation in the tent was changed, and to check the information booth?

Oh, and as far as updating the website goes, that's cool, but what are you going to do, connect to the Wifi and become wolf fodder on the wall of sh33p?

[JoeTampa]

So by paying 80$ you expect the organizers to hold your hand, spoonfeed you, and generally enable you to disengage brain so you don't have to keep yourself informed about whats going on ?
Would you like an asswiping to go with that as well ?

You volunteering?

No, I expect that when the inevitable schedule changes are made, that a little more effort than simply posting it at the information booth is made. At every trade show I have attended (and you can't count that high), when changes occur notification is made to the attendees. Normally, this is a P.A. announcement, which obviously cannot be done at DefCon. My point is that with 1/1000th of the effort required to actually change the schedule, a simple notification could be made, and I was postulating that the Goons would be an ideal conduit since 1) Most have radios. 2) There is always one in every major Con area. 3) When they talk, you LISTEN. :)

Any Con is a dynamic event, things change, some within the organizers control, but most outside. Just like life. Deal with it, instead of going Whisky Mike Papa Hotel...

Whatever, dude. I guess suggestions to improve the Con experience for all attendees doesn't fit in your world. Just sit back and rock on, mmmmkay?

[theprez98]

So by paying 80$ you expect the organizers to hold your hand, spoonfeed you, and generally enable you to disengage brain so you don't have to keep yourself informed about whats going on ?
Would you like an asswiping to go with that as well ?

Any Con is a dynamic event, things change, some within the organizers control, but most outside. Just like life. Deal with it, instead of going Whisky Mike Papa Hotel...

Dutch

Yes, and yes, but only at StumblerCon

[converge]

It seems the people that wanted to see "Micheal Lynns" presentation were SOL! Yes they did see a cut-down version of the presentation, but probably not what they wanted to see.

Sure, if you are arguing the point from an absolutists point of view. The Lynn situation was highly unique to the rest of BlackHat 2005. It was known ahead of time that the talk was forcibly changed by Cisco and ISS... attendees made video footage of Cisco's temps ripping the info out, swapping CDs, etc. How cool that in the middle of a completely different filler the subject went right into the heart of what folks were hoping to see in the first place. If the balls had been chopped off of his presentation, it would not have been news.. the presentation would have just been one of many BH05 talks. Name one thing that was missing from the presentation that people would have "wanted to see" but didn't because it was "cut-down" from the original.

If you think about it $80 for 3 days only amounts to $26.00 a day. Come on now, just one speakers event is worth that much, sense more that likely you can buy his/her book for probably $39-$49 dollars.

In congruence with what I implied.

[converge]

Still, how hard can it be for the schedule change to be radioed to the goons

That's a great idea and that is why it has been done for years. Talk changes are always announced in some fashion. Not everyone gets the message though and it would be quite absurd to think that goons could track *everyone* down to make sure they were getting to the right classroom. Shit, there is a senior goon that specifically organizes all the talks and changes; there have been live RSS feeds at the infobooth since DC11. This year there was also this.

[theprez98]

WTF is going on with the organization of this Defcon? All the talks are being moved around or cancelled, with NO NOTICE! We talked to numerous goons and they didn't have an idea of what was going on either. People pay their money to see certain talks. This is just ridiculous.

You paid $80 for Black Hat-lite. Be happy you got to see something.

[JoeTampa]

That's a great idea and that is why it has been done for years. Talk changes are always announced in some fashion. Not everyone gets the message though and it would be quite absurd to think that goons could track *everyone* down to make sure they were getting to the right classroom. Shit, there is a senior goon that specifically organizes all the talks and changes; there have been live RSS feeds at the infobooth since DC11. This year there was also this.

I attended two back-to-back presentations in Parthenon and then was in the Apollo lobby for an hour and change. I never heard any announcements. If they already have that as their plan, then perhaps it's an execution problem.

Again, while they certainly aren't beholden to keep me informed personally, I am certainly not beholden to go running to the infobooth after every presentation to make sure that the next one hasn't been moved. After all, I *did* pay the measly $80.00. So make it $90 and pay someone to look after things better - hell, I'd pay $100 if I knew when things were changed and didn't have to exit a room every time a speaker finished only to line back up to come in and sit in the same damned seat. When have you *ever* seen that before?! "Oh, the rooms aren't big enough to hold all the atendees, so this lets everyone get a shot at getting in".. So rent a larger facility! Quite frankly, I did pay to ATTEND the talks, not for a lottery ticket and a chance at it. DefCon is at the point where they either have to grow it larger (and more professional) or simply limit the number of atendees if they can't handle it's size.

[highwizard]

"Oh, the rooms aren't big enough to hold all the atendees, so this lets everyone get a shot at getting in".. So rent a larger facility! Quite frankly, I did pay to ATTEND the talks, not for a lottery ticket and a chance at it. DefCon is at the point where they either have to grow it larger (and more professional) or simply limit the number of atendees if they can't handle it's size.

Ok, you are tard.. Defcon isn't at the AP next year and the facilities are larger.. So sit down and shut the fuck up like a good little bitch. Ok? Thanks.. Bye.