The Asshole Fiasco

[Xodia]

First of all I apologise for the nonsense that happened Saturday night. I was not involved with Asshole's throwing the Redbull from 6007 (I was getting ice for Siviak and Icetre's party...because Asshole couldn't.). Nonetheless Twinvega, Neg9.org, and I extend the deepest of apologies to everyone that this effected. We owe you all beers (but not at the Riviera..).

So with the apologies out of the way here is the complete story of what happened.


Around 9:30PM I was getting ice for the penthouse party after walking up with Headrush and Lil_freak. I got a phonecall from Vega that went like this,
"You need to get down to the room fast. I just walked in and Asshole is being ridiculous."
So I went down to see what Asshole's ridiculousness was. I walked into the room to see Asshole on the couch screaming and making animal noises. At this point Asshole said (for the first time to me, second time to Vega), "I threw a Redbull out of the window and security saw it." At this point we mostly brushed off what he was saying as drunken banter and kept trying to get him to just go to sleep. At this point security knocked on the door.
I let the guard into our room and he was instantly yelling and being very angry about someone throwing a Red Bull out the window and it landing by a security guard. He used the phrase, "Almost killed the guard.". So, five guards and two metros later we had nearly been arrested (if not for Twinvega and I having to give security anything they asked for including two black badges and three normal human badges and Kaene's ID which they dubbed "suspicious"). Vega had to go on a search for his ID which caused the guards to go to the penthouse. There was also a sign pointing there for the few people that kept showing up looking for the neg9 party which was moved.

All of that combined turned into a clusterfuck. We ended up walking back to none other than the Alexis Park so Asshole aka Jon would have a chance to sober up. It didn't work. He's still pretty bad as I write this. He is no longer in DC859, he is no longer coming to Defcon. Apparently after we were ejected more people were throwing things from windows and that just made hotel security more angry.

To close I will leave the final news of Asshole from the tonight:

Asshole has offered to suck Highwiz's cock in order to gain back a bit of respect and dignity.

[theprez98]

It's the bad apples that always ruin the barrel...:frown:

[ck3k]

It's the bad apples that always ruin the barrel...:frown:

I was up in the black and white when about 5 people came up to me trying to tell me what had happened. I was not staying with twinvega this year, so I got worried about what had gone on. With all that being said, Twinvega and I have been going to con together for this being our 5th year. It only takes one idiot to ruin a con, this asshole guy is that guy. I know Twinvega won't be back at 15, and that sucks. I am guessing the Rivera is going to be the new home of defcon, I had a good time, just sucks that certain people where in the wrong place at the wrong time. I hope it all can be worked out. I just need to know when to print the free twinvega t-shirts (just kidding.)

[Tacitus]

So, um, apparently Red Bulls do not have wings?

[Gormless]

Well every one I apologize for Mr. Ass Hole and his Antics at Defcon. I couldn't make it this year unfortunately to "baby-sit" him like I did on our cruise in July. While on the cruise I Have been with him while he was intoxicated and I know that he can be a little foolish. I hope he didn't cause too much trouble, but it seems he has. And I apologize for his behavior. I don’t know if he is remorseful but I imagine he is. I would like to especially apologize to Vega and the others so I’ll start making the free Twin Vega T-Shirts. O look I already got some one to by one. http://img489.imageshack.us/my.php?image=freevegavq4.jpg

Gormless

[DJ Jackalope]

All I can think of is "why oh why didn't we get him arrested sooner?".

[dYn4mic]

All I can think of is "why oh why didn't we get him arrested sooner?".

When I met him at con, I knew he wasn't going to "work out well".
I figured he would just be "that guy" who passes out in a stupid position, pukes on himself, that kinda stuff. Little did we know he would prove far worse.

[dYn4mic]

So.. because so many of my (and others) friends were involved mearly by being in the same room, craSH and I took it apon ourselfs to let the goons know that it was only one "bad seed" that fucked everything up, and make sure everyone was on the same page and didn't think we had anything to do with him.

Much to our liking and mainly due to their wealth of experiance of running defcon, they already had that idea. Yhey knew it was just this 'asshole' kid and twinvega, some other dc530/dc707 people had nothing to do with it becides being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

craSH and I talked to noid for a few and it seems everything is O.K. The bummer is that twinvega among others may not be able to attend con again because he is banned from the riv. He will be getting his badge back, but that won't help if you can't be in the hotel.

don't worry, asshole is getting the "ass rape" he deserves and more...

Sucks he fucked it up for people when it came to parties, goons, friends and undercover cops demanding IDs.
But, this defcon still had far less incidents than past, and we're gonna be back in black for next year.

[ck3k]

When I met him at con, I knew he wasn't going to "work out well".
I figured he would just be "that guy" who passes out in a stupid position, pukes on himself, that kinda stuff. Little did we know he would prove far worse.

Guess the new rule is...don't bring people you can't trust 100%. I might be a little more paranoid about who is in my room after this year. I am not even sure what type of voodoo it takes to unban someone from a casino....don't think it is possible.

[staticblac]

I am confident with a lot of explaning on the part of the people involved and unfairly caught up in this situation, the people ( vega, cereal, xodia,, etc.) will have the con priviledges restored for next year. To quote dynamic, asshole is definatly getting what he deserves. I just wanna extend a big thanks to all the people that help get the true knowledge out so that the key people understood that "asshole" was not really affilated the neg9 people and made sure that information made it to the right people. We definatly owe you guys some shots.

[bascule]

Wow... that's pretty crazy because I was in the room watching these events transpire but was completely unaware that he literally dropped a can onto a security guard. From my vantage point it looked like he just dumped water on a security guard, and when I heard that all of neg9 got kicked out for just that... but uhh, holy crap, now that I know the details... WTF?

[hackajar]

Afterwards, (if my timeframe is correct) there was wood and such being chucked from other window, as a person from our group was pegged by some plastic item that could not be recognized. Fortunatly it does not appear security saw this event as well. What jerks.

[Gormless]

Wow I apologize for all that. I just got the basic idea from him (ass hole) that Xodia and Vega were finished at the Rivera. He left out a good bit of information then. I have since talked with "asshole" and he believes that everything is smoothed over. He keeps telling me how every one was cool with him and how he fit in. But I notice he is trying to convince himself that everything is ok. Quite funny but I can tell you all that he is a little petrified. But I guess his name applies to the whole Fiasco.

Gormless

[bluknight]

Guess the new rule is...don't bring people you can't trust 100%. I might be a little more paranoid about who is in my room after this year. I am not even sure what type of voodoo it takes to unban someone from a casino....don't think it is possible.

And people wonder why 303's parties have been generally invite-only for the past couple of years.

[LosT]

What really sucks is that TwinVega suffers because of this douchebag.

[Deviant Ollam]

there are a few points i'd like to raise amid all this. by no means is this to be construed as me stepping up to defend or rationalize the idiotic actions of Asshole, but merely to contextualize them. i feel it's important to keep things in perspective and not turn our grief over those affected into a public burning. (although i wouldn't negatively judge a public flogging, perhaps)

important considerations...

1. intoxication changes people - sometimes when a person is drunk their true, inner self comes out. but this is not always the case. when i was playing with the breathalyzer Thorn and i had a very interesting discussion about how people act at various levels of intoxication. i mentioned how my friends and i experimented ourselves in the past with consuming drinks at a steady, timed pace as we monitored our B.A.C. in order to learn how our bodies reacted to alcohol and also how our minds reacted to inebriation. we were all pretty shocked to learn how when you approach .08 (legal driving limit) you start to "feel" not as drunk... your inhibitions drop and you don't really think you're getting loaded. Thorn told me that this is not the only stage of bad judgement... eventually people can reach a point where they know they're drunk and simply do not care anymore. Soccer moms and family dads who would never do something so stupid as to endanger others have been pulled over and just stagger out of the car, totally sauced, and looked at him as if they didn't have a care in the world about their assinine choices.

it's not the choices and actions with which i take issue directly (horrible though they were). it's hard to fully blame a person in that state for being an ass while they're drunk... their decision to irresponsibly get 110% hammered is what makes me want to throw things, since it is the sort of thing that ruins it for everyone else on so many levels.

2. responsible intoxication is so very easy - those who know me are aware that i support all drug use and totall legalization of every single mind-altering chemical substance on earth. i favor harsh penalities, however, for those who would abuse such a freedom and hurt others in the process. one of the pieces of advice we see talked about in the community is the use of a sharpie marker on your arm to keep a running log of what substances you've taken, where you're staying, whom to contact if you get into trouble, etc. a big aspect of partying, at least for me, is being safe and smart about it... being with friends you trust who watch your back. bascule, pipes, and others who are familiar with highly elevated states of mind could join me in telling you about the critical "S"es... set, setting, and strain.

if you don't take those sorts of factors into consideration, even with intoxicants like alcohol, you're not being a good citizen and friend to your fellows. Asshole chose to get hammered-ass drunk and i'm going to assume he did this without telling his friends and other guests of his intentions to really tie one on. every circle of friends has its designated responsible figures... not squares who stand in a corner, scolding those who approach the bar to refill their glass, but people who can be counted on to keep a clear head and watchful eye on the scene so that no one gets out of hand. i have a better time when i'm partying knowing that i'm in the company of people like mouse, meee, Thorn, etc. they're not abstainers and they're not always even sober enough themselves to, say, drive someone somewhere... they're just always mature enough to keep their heads together even while insanity abounds around them.

3. poor planning and irresponsible partying ruins it for everyone else - not like this really has to be said. still, everyone should keep in mind that getting totally plowed and having no backup plan doesn't just result in bruises or vomit stains on your own self... it can lead to repressive rules, restrictive policies, and assinine laws down the road which hinder everyone else eventhough they didn't do anything wrong.

4. many of us have made bad choices before and are lucky that nothing went horribly wrong - i can recall (although not vividly) my time of absolute greatest drunkenness (in the superlative sense, not the pleasurable sense) at DefCon. it was DC10... well, pre-DefCon 10 actually. Renderman and i were hanging with two girls, Corinne and Lorna, in pool #2. while he wasn't sharing my room, like always render had full access to it for gear storage. all four of us were drinking poolside... and i don't know exactly how much rum & coke i consumed, but i remember the astonishment i felt at how badly my legs were holding me up once i got out of the boyant water.

after that, it was bad. i didn't even make it to dinner with render and the girls that evening. i'm told they tried to get into the room (either to wake me or for their stuff) but i had bolted the door (a reflex when i'm at a hotel). i may or may not have thrown up... i say this because my clothes felt like a mess when i awoke, but weren't dirty since i had clearly been standing in the shower with them on. had i fallen asleep on my back i may have been a few coughs away from pulling a hendrix. throwing something heavy out a window would have been an equally dangerous decision at the time, but i wouldn't have thought myself above it at the time. as it turns out, i woke up just fine and no one told me stories of projectile vommiting or running around without pants or anything.

many of us have had close calls and only luck or fate kept us in the clear. let's take this terrible incident as a reminder to party safe and party together... our community does a terrific job of policing itself, better than any other friends i have. i thank everyone for always being there for me when i'm plowed and i am proud to always be there for you, too.

[converge]

... monitored our B.A.C. in order to learn how our bodies reacted to alcohol and also how our minds reacted to inebriation. we were all pretty shocked to learn how when you approach .08 (legal driving limit) you start to "feel" not as drunk... your inhibitions drop and you don't really think you're getting loaded. This is actually an interesting point, because when I took the breathalizer I felt pretty nailed but only registered .08. Knowing this gave my (clear?) mind the thumbs up to consume considerably more. Oops. Fortunately, I think I may have only extended to making an ass out of myself through conversations to follow (sorry Nikita?).

That said, it can be rationalized to understand what may or may not have led to the Asshole scenario. BUT, it sounds like the pounding is still necessary to drive home to Asshole that this is NOT COOL. No, no one was cool with what happened. No, it was not okay because you were drunk off your ass. No, you should not come within eyesight of any of the goons that had to clean up after your mess, or any of the party folks that were fucked because of you.

Yes, you should generally avoid being within arms distance of about 90% of conference attendees. Yes, you owe the world and a popsicle to the Neg9 guys that you fucked over the most. Yes, consider that your inability to stay within means of control had someone's life within inches of merit.

[kallahar]

The red bull didn't hit anyone, and it was a riv maintenance guy who saw it hit, then saw what room it came from because asshole was still at the window.

I also believe that a Trespass is only valid for a year, so odds are that everyone can come back and they won't get hassled by the casino (unless they get arrested again, maybe then it would be a problem.)

Screw defcon once, shame on you, screw defcon twice, goons beat you.

[converge]

The red bull didn't hit anyone You're stating the difference between luck and irreversable damage.

[enven]

Someone deserves a swift kick to the nuts...

[noid]

Actually, a tresspass is permament. I'll give the quick rundown here to get folks up to speed:

1. Asshole - banned. From the hotel and Defcon. If he ever gets the ass beating he so desperately deserves, someone give him one for me. Because of him we had to make every party stop, eject its patrons, then begin carding people. This caused a clusterfuck of epic proportions. His actions also caused LVM to take a close look at us as well.

2. Twinvega, Xodia, rest of the Neg9 kids - not banned from Defcon, banned from hotel. We fully understand that their biggest mistake in all this was exercising some poor judgement in their choice of friends. In fact, I have Vega's black badge right next to me (PM me Vega). So, at the moment they wont be staying at the Riv next year, but they can come to Defcon. I talked to the head of hotel security before I left yesterday and he was pretty adamant with the idea that once you were 86'd, you're 86d. In most cases I think thats the right way to view it, but we'll work on him about that in this case. Either way, anyone whos in Neg9 who isnt Asshole, probably shouldnt be too worried about next year.

[Chris]

Ya know, every year with all of the parties going on people are always trying to get me to vouch for them and get them into the party. This is why I only vouch for people that I know well.

We hear all the time how we (goons) are dicks who think we are better than everyone else and how we are elitists, etc. Then we hear how the guys running the parties are dicks and trying to be too exclusive and it's bullshit blah blah blah....

Well...this is why. Ninja, Ghetto, 303, IVU, Hacker Pimps, and the Staff are not going to get our asses tossed out of the hotel so that people won't say we are jerks. Vouching to get someone into a party puts MY ass on the line and I don't see why I should do this for someone I don't know...regardless of the color of their badge or who their friends may or may not be.

Bottom line, if I don't know you, I won't get you into the food court, let alone the parties of people that have been cool enough to extend me the ability to get other people in.

[cereal76]

I talked to the head of hotel security before I left yesterday and he was pretty adamant with the idea that once you were 86'd, you're 86d. In most cases I think thats the right way to view it, but we'll work on him about that in this case. Either way, anyone whos in Neg9 who isnt Asshole, probably shouldnt be too worried about next year.
Well that's good to hear. Because I know everyone wants to hear it, here is my part of the story:

I got a call saying Twinvega and Xodia were in the room with Metro and Riv security. Me and someone else went to that floor and asked some of the goons walking out of the room if they could give any details, and one goon (I didn't know his name) advised me that anyone staying in the room linked to that one (which was 3 floors down) should get their belongings out of there immediatley. I went down and started throwing my belongings into my bag, but I wasn't fast enough because security came in and that's when I got 86'd.

[lil_freak]

1. Asshole - banned. From the hotel and Defcon. If he ever gets the ass beating he so desperately deserves, someone give him one for me.
Good to hear. Also, please add a beating in there for me too.



We hear all the time how we (goons) are dicks who think we are better than everyone else and how we are elitists, etc. Then we hear how the guys running the parties are dicks and trying to be too exclusive and it's bullshit blah blah blah....

I believe during the course of the night I was called everything from a "bitch" to a "Nazi" for yelling at people to have their ID's in hand and to "Jug It or Chuck It".

But I look at it this way: Someone had to do it so others could have fun.



Well...this is why. Ninja, Ghetto, 303, IVU, Hacker Pimps, and the Staff are not going to get our asses tossed out of the hotel so that people won't say we are jerks. Vouching to get someone into a party puts MY ass on the line and I don't see why I should do this for someone I don't know...regardless of the color of their badge or who their friends may or may not be.

Bottom line, if I don't know you, I won't get you into the food court, let alone the parties of people that have been cool enough to extend me the ability to get other people in.

Chris, this is very well stated and I agree.




:tongue: Speaking of being a "Door Nazi", I would like to thank all of the people who understood why we needed to card people at the door and whatnot. Those of you who were nice and joked around with me made me feel better about having to yell at everyone.

[staticblac]

It is good to know that it did not actually hit someone as we were told. That should help smooth things over with the Rivera. "Asshole" should have gotten a lot more that what he did for all the damage he caused esp the parties getting shut down. "Asshole" simply did not have enough expirence with drinking to be able to tell when he was done even after reciving warnings from many of us and still continuing to drink. I just again want to thank all of those who helped this situation out in someway. You understood he was not really affliated with neg9 and made sure that was known. And as lil freak said, we who were checking at the door willingly gave up our nights so everyone else could still have one.

[astcell]

The measure of Defcon is not what we can do, but what we can do when the shit hits the fan. I had a front row/center seat at the Penthouse when security came by. Everyone was so helpful, courteous and respectful that I am sure the guards thought we were being facetious. In reality, EVERYONE was on the side of what was right. This is an awesome group to be a part of.

And like we keep hearing, WE are Defcon. WE make the con. Your .005% contribution adds to the entire evolution. It is a responsibilty. Be proud. Be Defcon. Don't be an asshole.

[Abby_Normal]

:tongue: Speaking of being a "Door Nazi", I would like to thank all of the people who understood why we needed to card people at the door and whatnot. Those of you who were nice and joked around with me made me feel better about having to yell at everyone.

I'd like to say a big sorry to anyone I was bitchy to on saturday night (aside from the Riv Security, they had it coming).

I went out to see Penn and Teller and when I returned to the Riv I was told I couldn't go back to MY OWN room with out showing ID. But once I heard the whole story I calmed down.

[bluknight]

:tongue: Speaking of being a "Door Nazi", I would like to thank all of the people who understood why we needed to card people at the door and whatnot. Those of you who were nice and joked around with me made me feel better about having to yell at everyone.

Speaking as someone who has had to door-goon at parties with similar issues, it was nice to see you had a good attitude and a sense of humor about it. Believe me -- there are some of us who would have been there watching your back, had someone gotten rowdy while we were there.

[AcidicA]

Side note, can we use a picture of Asshole in next years scavenger hunt when they ask for an asshat?


AcidicA

[Skeletone Jack]

Side note, can we use a picture of Asshole in next years scavenger hunt when they ask for an asshat?


If that's the case, I have a few nice pics of when we tagged him.

[staticblac]

100 pts - "Free Vega" t-shirt

[TheCotMan]

Be proud. Be Defcon. Don't be an asshole.
Slogans for next year?

[dYn4mic]

2. Twinvega, Xodia, rest of the Neg9 kids - not banned from Defcon, banned from hotel.
[.........snip.......]
Either way, anyone whos in Neg9 who isnt Asshole, probably shouldnt be too worried about next year.

Thats good. I was worried that some of the good friends I have in the group, as well as a few people who were enjoying their first defcon will be able to return. They are honestly good people, part of why they allowed asshole in their room (and partly because it was xodia'a room and they didn't have a choice).

I'd like to thank noid again, and also all the goons and people who were understanding and went out of their way to allow the right people back.

You can bet we'll ALL be more careful about who is hanging around.

[dYn4mic]

" Yhey knew it was just this 'asshole' kid and twinvega, some other dc530/dc707 people had nothing to do with it becides being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


Ahh.. this statement is prettymuch retarded (i guess thats what you get with super slow sleep and getting your ride stolen / not being able to make it hope easily.

I in no way wanted to imply twinvega had anything to do with asshole or the other way around.. I should've said: "They knew it was just this 'asshole' kid causing the problem(s), and that twinvega other dc530/neg9/dc707 people had nothing to do with it.

Just wanted to make sure nobody got a mixed message. (why can't i didn't old posts?)

Can we please close this thread within a few days unless its going anywhere? I don't even want to think about it anymore heh.

[alklloyd]

What really pisses me off is some of my favorite people had to get dragged into this shit.

Al

[TheCotMan]

(why can't i didn't old posts?)
Ummmmm. Huh?

(heh-heh)

I'm guessing you are asking why you can't edit old posts. User are allowed to edit posts within 24 hours of posting with the "edit" image/link located next to the "reply" link in any of their own posts. They are also allowed to edit a post within 5 minutes without having the "edited by so-and-so at date/time" appearing.

After 24 hours, the post is "sealed" from user edits. This helps to prevent problems that appear as a result of "history revisions" -- especially in discussions or arugments.

As for closing it, any of the mods can close it, but I think it would just open up again elsewhere on these forums unless people are allowed to let off some steam on this issue.

When there is no activity in this thread for 3 weeks, PM me a reminder to close it.

[Dallas]

As the bartender in the MOJO Party room at the End of the Hall, Asshole is ..well and asshole. His actions very nearly got myself, and Icetre into the real possibility of going to Jail. In addition, he ruined what was a very expensive party as a result of putting the Metro, Riv security, FBI and everyone else into a "bad" mood.

He cost ICETRE thousand(s), he cost me money, he cost Defcon the ability to have truly MOJO (non-exclusive) parties with FREE alchol. He has cost us all a lot. He was not alone, but he was the straw on the Metro's back that night.

I dont know if I can get over being pissed at him in a year. But I can say this.

I do not think the Riv is appropriate for Defcon, while it is perfect for a straight convention, it does not work for after hours activities and defcon "humor". I disagree with Defcon staff and others. Riv will ultimatly make Defcon more of a "daycon" than something we have fond memories of.

Hopefully we can setup a gathering for EFF, MOJO and others next year offsite but still accessable. It was very clear speaking to Hotel management they are not going to allow grand parties, and I do not believe in "INVITE ONLY" parties.

So ....we'll see where we go. That being said. Thank you to everyone who came to the MOJO party in the Penthouse, hope you had a good time Friday and Saturday (Until it was shut down). Sorry about the ID's, but I cannot go to Jail for some underage ASSHOLE.

-DALLAS:evil:

[Voltage Spike]

I do not think the Riv is appropriate for Defcon, while it is perfect for a straight convention, it does not work for after hours activities and defcon "humor". I disagree with Defcon staff and others. Riv will ultimatly make Defcon more of a "daycon" than something we have fond memories of.

I have to agree with this to some extent. Unlike previous years, I couldn't wander around and visit with a ridiculous number great groups in one night. It felt like there was a half-dozen places to be and then a whole lot of people that weren't sure where to set up. The extra space was nice, but I'd take the old atmosphere over air conditioning.

It's a tough call. I imagine we can adapt to the Riviera given time. Plus, the hotel might have been ultra-cautious this year based on rumors and now that they've actually seen us...

It was very clear speaking to Hotel management they are not going to allow grand parties, and I do not believe in "INVITE ONLY" parties.

Did anyone else notice the disclaimer about a $200 fine for bringing non-hotel food or drinks into the room for purposes of hospitality? I didn't hear of it being enforced, but what's up with that?

[Abby_Normal]

I have to agree with this to some extent. Unlike previous years, I couldn't wander around and visit with a ridiculous number great groups in one night. It felt like there was a half-dozen places to be and then a whole lot of people that weren't sure where to set up. The extra space was nice, but I'd take the old atmosphere over air conditioning.

I think next year they are going to make a greater effort to keep all the DC people in one tower, which should help

It's a tough call. I imagine we can adapt to the Riviera given time. Plus, the hotel might have been ultra-cautious this year based on rumors and now that they've actually seen us...
From what the bellboys told me that was indeed the case. They had heard ever horror story about defcon, and seems to have been giving the impression that all the stories happened at one time rather than spread out over 13 years.

They were expecting us to burn the place to the ground. And I really got the feeling that security was upset that pretty much nothing happened. They wanted to bash heads, and out good behavior left them with blueballs, so they tried to make problems out of nothing.

I think next year will be very different. I am already hearing things that I can't talk about yet that make me feel that next year will be better.



Did anyone else notice the disclaimer about a $200 fine for bringing non-hotel food or drinks into the room for purposes of hospitality? I didn't hear of it being enforced, but what's up with that?

Nope, and we didn't book our room through reservations, we went through the Rivs housing coordinator. We told them what we were planning, and they didn't mention it at all. I felt like when they ran out of things to fuck with us about they decided to go after that as a last resort. They searced our room for drugs, and found nothing, there was no damage to the room and no problems of any kind with us, and they wanted there to be.

But I hear the upper managment is pleased with us, and wants us back, so perhaps they will try to make this up to us.

[dYn4mic]

(why can't i didn't old posts?)

(heh-heh)

I'm guessing you are asking why you can't edit old posts. User are allowed to edit posts within 24 hours of posting with the "edit" image/link located next to the "reply" link in any of their own posts. They are also allowed to edit a post within 5 minutes without having the "edited by so-and-so at date/time" appearing.


Haha.. wow I'm not sure how I came up with that combo. Guess I still havn't caught up on sleep :-P
thanks for the info.

[dYn4mic]

I do not think the Riv is appropriate for Defcon, while it is perfect for a straight convention, it does not work for after hours activities and defcon "humor". I disagree with Defcon staff and others. Riv will ultimatly make Defcon more of a "daycon" than something we have fond memories of.
[....snip...]
It was very clear speaking to Hotel management they are not going to allow grand parties, and I do not believe in "INVITE ONLY" parties.



I couldn't wander around and visit with a ridiculous number great groups in one night. It felt like there was a half-dozen places to be and then a whole lot of people that weren't sure where to set up. The extra space was nice, but I'd take the old atmosphere over air conditioning.
[....snip...]


I agree with most of what you both said. It does cut down on the community aspect of things and everyone seems much more isolated. If your "in" with the "community", then its not really a problem, but.. if your not.. you've gotta make friends fast, go out on the town or just watch defconTV (if it was operational). I felt bad for those who were having their first "con" experiance, it was much different than the AP, much more "invite only" which.. while sometimes understandable is something I dislike about the community.
It seemed MUCH harder to have lots of people in one place, or lots of friends going to the same thing if some of them got invited and others didn't.

Hopefully the riv was just being a bit overly zealus with their restrictions but... lets not forget they're a casino... much unlike the old alexis park that was off the beaten path (with beaten paths of its own)...
Having non-con people mixed in, as well as a large amount of distance between some locations made going from one party to another difficult.
(but, if thats the biggest thing to worry about, i don't have a problem :-P )

As others have said... hopefully giving defcon one or two of the towers would be great for keeping things close together and would be much better. Riv might allow for a bit less security now they know the goons are plenty capeable as well as we wouldn't be near the casino and "norms".

Next year might be almost as intresting as this year seemed to be.

[sammo]

I agree with most of what you both said. It does cut down on the community aspect of things and everyone seems much more isolated. If your "in" with the "community", then its not really a problem, but.. if your not.. you've gotta make friends fast, go out on the town or just watch defconTV (if it was operational).

This was the situation some of my friends and I were in this year, where we didn't know too many people. We ended up getting into one of the skyboxes on Saturday and it was a blast... it would be great if everyone could just party together, etc, but I realize that idiots fuck it up. :confused:

[noid]

They were expecting us to burn the place to the ground. And I really got the feeling that security was upset that pretty much nothing happened. They wanted to bash heads, and out good behavior left them with blueballs, so they tried to make problems out of nothing.


Sorry to burst yer bubble, princess. Hotel security was quite happy to have nothing to do. As were the rest of us.

[mfreeck]

I agree with most of what you both said. It does cut down on the community aspect of things and everyone seems much more isolated. If your "in" with the "community", then its not really a problem, but.. if your not.. you've gotta make friends fast, go out on the town or just watch defconTV (if it was operational). I felt bad for those who were having their first "con" experiance, it was much different than the AP, much more "invite only"


I agree with this. Saturday night while converge was passed out, I went out seeking a couple of parties. Unfortunately, I didn't know where the invites for the 303 and ...neg9? parties were, but i had the ninja sticker. When I got there, no one knew who the fuck I was, so I kinda got the evil eye. I got in because I had the ninja sticker, but the fellow at the door stared at my ID so long I yanked it back... it seemed like he was memorizing it or trying to divine why such a lame person was able to get into such a cool party. It was a totally different story friday night when I was with converge. It was interesting to see how I was treated the two nights. I'm not saying one is right or wrong, just that two people could have an experience 180 degrees apart, depending on if they are known as "cool" or not. Someone could be a totally cool and awesome and brilliant person, but if it's their first year at con, they'll be treated like a lame outsider at these parties. It may or may not be what we want, but it's something to consider.


As others have said... hopefully giving defcon one or two of the towers would be great for keeping things close together and would be much better.


I would not want to stay in any tower but Monte Carlo. I also prefer my room to be an "oasis," and thus would not want to stay within earshot of a big party. If I had to pay non-defcon rates for the deluxe (read: fridge) room in monte carlo, i would probably end up at Hilton, though I'd prefer the closer Riv room.

[staticblac]

I agree with this. Saturday night while converge was passed out, I went out seeking a couple of parties. Unfortunately, I didn't know where the invites for the 303 and ...neg9? parties were, but i had the ninja sticker. When I got there, no one knew who the fuck I was, so I kinda got the evil eye. I got in because I had the ninja sticker, but the fellow at the door stared at my ID so long I yanked it back... it seemed like he was memorizing it or trying to divine why such a lame person was able to get into such a cool party. It was a totally different story friday night when I was with converge. It was interesting to see how I was treated the two nights. I'm not saying one is right or wrong, just that two people could have an experience 180 degrees apart, depending on if they are known as "cool" or not. Someone could be a totally cool and awesome and brilliant person, but if it's their first year at con, they'll be treated like a lame outsider at these parties. It may or may not be what we want, but it's something to consider.



I would not want to stay in any tower but Monte Carlo. I also prefer my room to be an "oasis," and thus would not want to stay within earshot of a big party. If I had to pay non-defcon rates for the deluxe (read: fridge) room in monte carlo, i would probably end up at Hilton, though I'd prefer the closer Riv room.


Well the neg9 party was the little neg9 symbol stickers on peoples badges and that was xodia and I. The neg9 stripper con party, but that got screwed up. It just comes down to who you know. If you know the right people you can get into the private parties and such. People like to know who is at their parties so stuff like what asshole doesn't happen, that I believe is the whole reason for the invites.

[bascule]

I haven't gotten to say this yet, so I really should:

neg9, my sincere condolences for asshole's behavior. You are all some of my favorite people to hang out with at Defcon and we've had some really great times together. It really, really sucks that you're banned from staying at the Riv and that your entire group got blamed for what asshole did. I hope this whole experience didn't completely ruin con for you this year, and I really hope to see all of you at con next year (minus asshole).

[shannon]

but i had the ninja sticker. When I got there, no one knew who the fuck I was, so I kinda got the evil eye. I got in because I had the ninja sticker, but the fellow at the door stared at my ID so long I yanked it back... it seemed like he was memorizing it or trying to divine why such a lame person was able to get into such a cool party. It was a totally different story friday night when I was with converge. It was interesting to see how I was treated the two nights. I'm not saying one is right or wrong, just that two people could have an experience 180 degrees apart, depending on if they are known as "cool" or not. Someone could be a totally cool and awesome and brilliant person, but if it's their first year at con, they'll be treated like a lame outsider at these parties. It may or may not be what we want, but it's something to consider.

Wow, this was my first Con and I had a BLAST. I came with my Husband and looked more like a Soccer Mom all weekend than anything. I was completely welcommed to both the Ninja Party as well as Abby/Ice's party. I never felt like I got the 'evil eye' nor did my Husband. I never encounterred any Elite-est(sp) attitudes. We simply went around and smiled alot.. truth be told, I FELT 'cool' even if I may or may not have been. Turned out, I met some VERY Cool People and look forward to seeing them again! I even walked up to DT at the Ninja Party to introduce myself and tell him how impressed I was with the whole 'CON-thing' and not once did I get treated like a lame outsider.

I got the impression that, as a whole, those at the Con were VERY Open, Fun, non-judgemental, and COOL. And if ANYONE would have gotten treated Lame, it would have been a middle-age nOOb Soccer Mom of 3 little boys that is clueless of computers. I felt like I fit Right In With Everyone. I guess it's all in your attitude... if you FEEL out of Place, then perhaps you are......?

[Abby_Normal]

Sorry to burst yer bubble, princess. Hotel security was quite happy to have nothing to do. As were the rest of us.

I assure you there were a few really bad apples who were indeed being very rude and confrontational. Anyone who was in the penthouse will tell you the same.

We allowed them to search the room repeatly, we complied with every request they made. But they kept pushing, like they wanted us to push back.

This wasn't all riv security people, it was just a couple. Some of them were actually quite cool.

The goons were, as always, awsome. They are always welcome in our room.

[Xodia]

Just a side note, "Fuck Asshole" t-shirts will be available at ShmooCon for the paltry price of $12. The design will be up shortly.

[TheCotMan]

I guess it's all in your attitude... if you FEEL out of Place, then perhaps you are......?

I don't know if this was intended as a trolling statement, but it seems a bit antagonistic. Some members here might think you were accusing them of not belonging at Defcon, while other members would read it as a general "you" instead of a "you" directed at the person to which you were responding. I am not telling you how you should act, but am letting you know how some people might take the statement.

Glad you had a great time at Defcon, and welcome to the forums.

[shannon]

I don't know if this was intended as a trolling statement, but it seems a bit antognistic. Some members here might think you were accusing them of not belonging at Defcon, while other members would read it as a general "you" instead of a "you" directed at the person to which you were responding. I am not telling you how you should act, but am letting you know how some people might take the statement.

Glad you had a great time at Defcon, and welcome to the forums.

I can see how that would be taken wrong and antagonistic. Very Sorry
I meant it in a VERY General way and not to be hateful. ~I~ tend to use this way of feeling with most of anything ~I~ do.... If I feel out of place somewhere or doing something then perhaps I should not be there or doing it in the first place (Follow your Gut-Instinct kinda Thing).

That being said, it does bother me a bit that someone would criticise a general public attitude (those at Defcon) because they werent 'made' to feel a certain way. Take responsibility for your own feelings and do not blame others if it isnt what you want. (again, a general statement). I would hope that Mfreeck does not feel like it was DefCon's fault that he was made to feel like a 'lame outsider'. Especially since I felt could be considered in the same shoes as he was and had a completely different experience.

I would never go so far as to tell someone that I think they don't belong at Defcon.. (I would be a hypocrite against those I met at DefCon if I did and I have the utmost respect for everyone I met there). I think everyone belongs at Defcon who wants to be there. If your experience is bad, then it is because ~you~ make it bad. Someone else cannot make you 'feel' anything you don't want to feel.

[shannon]

Also, Thanks for the Welcome. I can be a bit over-spoken.... ask my Husband.

[astcell]

Side note, can we use a picture of Asshole in next years scavenger hunt when they ask for an asshat?
AcidicA

That's like bringing pool2girl when they ask for a young lady.

[shrdlu]

We allowed them to search the room repeatly, we complied with every request they made. But they kept pushing, like they wanted us to push back.

This wasn't all riv security people, it was just a couple. Some of them were actually quite cool.

I have to back you up on this. For the most part, everyone in a brown shirt was great. On the other hand, I ran into someone about 5:30 or 6:00AM Sunday that was just *looking* for some reason to get serious. First I got yelled at for not wearing shoes (even though I'd been down there every single morning previously, without shoes, and encountered guards each time). Then, when I returned, I got yelled at when I started to plug my laptop in the wall socket. There were other things as well.

Amazingly enough, I kept my cool (even without adequate coffee), but it was trying. There was simply no reason for this creature of indeterminate sexuality to behave in such a fashion, other than hoping that there'd be something to react to. I say indeterminate because I thought it was female, but some of the white shirt guys swore that it was male. Who can say? Anyway, there really were a few bad apples, noid.

[Grendel]

There was simply no reason for this creature of indeterminate sexuality to behave in such a fashion, other than hoping that there'd be something to react to. I say indeterminate because I thought it was female, but some of the white shirt guys swore that it was male. Who can say? Anyway, there really were a few bad apples, noid.

Ok, I now know who you're talking about. I saw her chewing out someone in the common area (around 1 am on Sat.), threatening to throw him out of the casino. From what I heard and saw, I would also state that it looked like she was looking for a fight without any real justification. Yeah, I thought she was a bit over the top, imo.

[mfreeck]

That being said, it does bother me a bit that someone would criticise a general public attitude (those at Defcon) because they werent 'made' to feel a certain way. Take responsibility for your own feelings and do not blame others if it isnt what you want. (again, a general statement). I would hope that Mfreeck does not feel like it was DefCon's fault that he was made to feel like a 'lame outsider'. Especially since I felt could be considered in the same shoes as he was and had a completely different experience.


In my post I don't believe I blamed anyone (except possibly the doorman), and I specifically said that I was not judging the events that took place as right or wrong. Someone also replied to my post and defended invite-only parties. I never said I had a problem with them. I believe it's pretty sane to have invite-only parties. At the AP, with an outdoor area, it's easier for the goons to police folks, as they are more spread out, easier to see, etc. This is not so inside, and by now we are all aware of the dangers of having one bad guest.

The topic iirc was about whether folks might feel excluded by not getting into the parties or by being new. I was sharing a story of two different circumstances where I felt I was perceived two different ways. It is true that half of how you are perceived is how you feel.... how you perceive you were perceived. I was in fact a bit cranky that night in general, so maybe the whole 'evil eye' bit was a bunch of hooey. Nevertheless, I was sharing my story about how I felt. It is pretty darn subjective, which is why I took pains to not pass judgement on whether the situation was right or wrong. I doubt that this particular situation could be categorized either way, because there are almost no objective facts which point in one direction or another.

Because I am not new to Defcon, I could only speculate how someone might feel if they were new and didn't know enough folks to get any invites to any parties, or if they did get into a party, but didn't know anyone there at all. I am very heartened to hear that you were new to Defcon, found some friends and were treated with respect.

[dYn4mic]

Well the neg9 party was the little neg9 symbol stickers on peoples badges and that was xodia and I. The neg9 stripper con party, but that got screwed up. It just comes down to who you know. If you know the right people you can get into the private parties and such. People like to know who is at their parties so stuff like what asshole doesn't happen, that I believe is the whole reason for the invites.

Yeah.. I really wish you or Xodia would've talked to some of the other people in the group... more importiantly myself and craSH who pretty much founded it, are the PoC for the biggest areas, and are trying to steer things in the right direction among many other things.... As everyone knows we can party well, I'd like to work towards being respected for real reasons. You see Shmoo group throwing a strippercon?

Party invites are good, and bad. On one hand, they keep the "bad" people out, but they also keep a lot of good people, people who neg9 would want to come see what we're all about, see that we're about sharing information, about learning and having the "dedication" to set your mind on doing something and stick with it.
"Stripper con party" is something I myself look down on, and I would bet craSH, twinvega, static_cast and others would agree. Its not something I see as productive, and watching human beings do crazy things then crawl around on the ground for mere few dollars is something that makes me sick, not excited.

This time around, our open arms got some people in trouble. I learned a few things at defcon this year, one of them is to speak up when I meet someone who is being a jackass rather than waiting for someone else to say "slow down".
While I'd not like to bring personal shit into this thread, please don't make stickers and give them out for the group that you barely participate in. Espcially without asking how some other members feel. We're trying to gain respect, not the oppsite.

[dYn4mic]

Just a side note, "Fuck Asshole" t-shirts will be available at ShmooCon for the paltry price of $12. The design will be up shortly.

I don't want highwiz to get too excited...

[staticblac]

Yeah.. I really wish you or Xodia would've talked to some of the other people in the group... more importiantly myself and craSH who pretty much founded it, are the PoC for the biggest areas, and are trying to steer things in the right direction among many other things.... As everyone knows we can party well, I'd like to work towards being respected for real reasons. You see Shmoo group throwing a strippercon?

Party invites are good, and bad. On one hand, they keep the "bad" people out, but they also keep a lot of good people, people who neg9 would want to come see what we're all about, see that we're about sharing information, about learning and having the "dedication" to set your mind on doing something and stick with it.
"Stripper con party" is something I myself look down on, and I would bet craSH, twinvega, static_cast and others would agree. Its not something I see as productive, and watching human beings do crazy things then crawl around on the ground for mere few dollars is something that makes me sick, not excited.

This time around, our open arms got some people in trouble. I learned a few things at defcon this year, one of them is to speak up when I meet someone who is being a jackass rather than waiting for someone else to say "slow down".
While I'd not like to bring personal shit into this thread, please don't make stickers and give them out for the group that you barely participate in. Espcially without asking how some other members feel. We're trying to gain respect, not the oppsite.



Strippercon at least in my opinon was meant as a good time for all too enjoy. Not as a way to look down on the principles that neg9 belives in and what the group stands for. When I first joined the group I belived the group stood for the open sharing of knowledge with other likeminded people and I still believe the principle stands to this day. I never though it was just putting a name on a group of people drinking together and having a good time. The group stands for a lot more and if in fact the main idea of the group was brought down I apologize, that was not the intention of the party. It was just meant as a way to unwind from dc for anyone to enjoy.

[bryan]

Were the falling objects happening on the north side of the pool? While trying to set up for the Beer Cooling Contraption Contest (around 11:30 am on Friday) I had a Redbull can (empty) fall from the sky, hit the ground, and bounce up and hit my leg. I didn't think much of it, especially since I was trying to convince a Riv security guard that my contraptin was not really a cooler.

Bryan

[staticblac]

Were the falling objects happening on the north side of the pool? While trying to set up for the Beer Cooling Contraption Contest (around 11:30 am on Friday) I had a Redbull can (empty) fall from the sky, hit the ground, and bounce up and hit my leg. I didn't think much of it, especially since I was trying to convince a Riv security guard that my contraptin was not really a cooler.

Bryan
This happened towards nighttime and on the other corner of the hotel, near the parking structure

[dYn4mic]

Strippercon at least in my opinon was meant as a good time for all too enjoy. Not as a way to look down on the principles that neg9 belives in and what the group stands for. When I first joined the group I belived the group stood for the open sharing of knowledge with other likeminded people and I still believe the principle stands to this day. I never though it was just putting a name on a group of people drinking together and having a good time. The group stands for a lot more and if in fact the main idea of the group was brought down I apologize, that was not the intention of the party. It was just meant as a way to unwind from dc for anyone to enjoy.

Understandable... but having a "neg9 party" without the involvment or planning by a lot of people in the group is kinda not cool. It doesn't need a name if people are just "unwinding after DC". We've talked about having a joint dc707/dc530 party starting a few years back but... its hard to pull off without planning, and most of the members are now part of neg9 or out of the 'scene'. Next year some of us are going to have a hacker jep. team, probably compete in the aCTF (almost did last this year), and maybe something else... So if people want to throw a "neg9 party" go for it.. Just be sure not to allow fucktards to stay, give everyone a chance, have too much alcohol and just do like we normally do when not at con: Have fun and learn at the same time. If you feel the need to respond or.. want to start a thread... goto our forums.

[barkode]

I don't know if this was intended as a trolling statement, but it seems a bit antognistic. Some members here might think you were accusing them of not belonging at Defcon, while other members would read it as a general "you" instead of a "you" directed at the person to which you were responding. I am not telling you how you should act, but am letting you know how some people might take the statement.

Glad you had a great time at Defcon, and welcome to the forums.

I'll jump to Shannon's defense here and say that her and her husband were an example of the coolest type of con-goer. It was her first year and his fourth or so, and they were invited to the Ninja party by Crackerjack, as I'd thrown him down some invites to pass to his buddies. The next morning after the party, when my room (well, CStone's room) was overrun with random crashers and I was temporarily homeless, they saw my Ninja badge, recognized me, and let me crash in their room based on that alone, not knowing me at all. They even brought me pizza and soda a few hours later. I sat there and talked to them for half an hour afterwards and they were just the nicest people you could find.

To anyone that wonders why we're so selective with who we invite to our parties over all these years, this is one of the many reasons why. It was awesome that they knew based on reputation that I was trustworthy and I knew that if they were at the party, they were good people, and it all worked out.

Anyway, Shannon - hope to see you next year. Thanks again for the crash space. :)

[TheCotMan]

I'll jump to Shannon's defense here and say that her and her husband were an example of the coolest type of con-goer. It was her first year and his fourth or so, and they were invited to the Ninja party by Crackerjack, as I'd thrown him down some invites to pass to his buddies. The next morning after the party, when my room (well, CStone's room) was overrun with random crashers and I was temporarily homeless, they saw my Ninja badge, recognized me, and let me crash in their room based on that alone, not knowing me at all. They even brought me pizza and soda a few hours later. I sat there and talked to them for half an hour afterwards and they were just the nicest people you could find.

To anyone that wonders why we're so selective with who we invite to our parties over all these years, this is one of the many reasons why. It was awesome that they knew based on reputation that I was trustworthy and I knew that if they were at the party, they were good people, and it all worked out.

Anyway, Shannon - hope to see you next year. Thanks again for the crash space. :)

Excellent. It is difficult to know what a person means when they post certain things, as some people can be passive-aggressive, some have hidden agendas, some want to cause problems, and some are innocent/oblivious to such OOB (out of band) communication. Once people are around for a while, these things are established and better understood without the need of questioning people's motives/agendas.

Nothing posted by shannon up to this post gave me any indication that shannon was trolling, but I would rather be safe than sorry by addressing things early, instead of later. :-)

Appologies to shannon for the false accusation/inference/suggestion.

[shannon]

I'll jump to Shannon's defense here and say that her and her husband were an example of the coolest type of con-goer. It was her first year and his fourth or so, and they were invited to the Ninja party by Crackerjack, as I'd thrown him down some invites to pass to his buddies. The next morning after the party, when my room (well, CStone's room) was overrun with random crashers and I was temporarily homeless, they saw my Ninja badge, recognized me, and let me crash in their room based on that alone, not knowing me at all. They even brought me pizza and soda a few hours later. I sat there and talked to them for half an hour afterwards and they were just the nicest people you could find.

To anyone that wonders why we're so selective with who we invite to our parties over all these years, this is one of the many reasons why. It was awesome that they knew based on reputation that I was trustworthy and I knew that if they were at the party, they were good people, and it all worked out.

Anyway, Shannon - hope to see you next year. Thanks again for the crash space. :)

Thanks Babe, any time. Oh, you MAY have left some of the Sobriety you are missing (lost and found thread) in our room. I can send you the partial, COD.. but do you really need it? :wink:

[shannon]

Nothing posted by shannon up to this post gave me any indication that shannon was trolling, but I would rather be safe than sorry by addressing things early, instead of later. :-)

Appologies to shannon for the false accusation/inference/suggestion.

No Worries. I'm pretty Tame.. uhm.. except on Vodka.

I look forward to keeping up with everyone that I met at DefCon through these forums. You have a rough job being a Mod.. Thanks for being on top of it.
p.s. I like the icons better.:biggrin:

[ck3k]

Strippercon at least in my opinon was meant as a good time for all too enjoy. Not as a way to look down on the principles that neg9 belives in and what the group stands for. When I first joined the group I belived the group stood for the open sharing of knowledge with other likeminded people and I still believe the principle stands to this day. I never though it was just putting a name on a group of people drinking together and having a good time. The group stands for a lot more and if in fact the main idea of the group was brought down I apologize, that was not the intention of the party. It was just meant as a way to unwind from dc for anyone to enjoy.

I really don't think having strippers is all that cool, yes I like nekkid women (shocker there), but I would rather have neg9 throw a cool haxoring party with trance and gadgets. I think if a party uses a group name it should be approved by those in the group. Staticblac, you rolled with us alot, but our core group is about 10 guys, whom would make this type of call. I tend to not associate with alot of groups for the main reason of the group being looked upon badly due to a couple of bad apples. I consider myself a member of neg9, but I don't always approve of all members actions. I don't want it to become a stupid frat, I want it to become a cool group for people to hang out with and share knowleage. Just my 2cents.

[nous]

When I got there, no one knew who the fuck I was, so I kinda got the evil eye. I got in because I had the ninja sticker, but the fellow at the door stared at my ID so long I yanked it back... it seemed like he was memorizing it or trying to divine why such a lame person was able to get into such a cool party. It was a totally different story friday night when I was with converge.

the primary doorman at the ninja networks party was TW and, by the time he had to check IDs, he was well into his cups. he probably couldn't see straight enough to find your birthdate. if anyone was likely to give you the evil eye saturday night, it was me and only if you smoked inside the skybox or fucked with my hookahs (or came on too strong to the bartender).

nous.

[sammo]

the primary doorman at the ninja networks party was TW and, by the time he had to check IDs, he was well into his cups. he probably couldn't see straight enough to find your birthdate. if anyone was likely to give you the evil eye saturday night, it was me and only if you smoked inside the skybox or fucked with my hookahs (or came on too strong to the bartender).

nous.

We couldn't get into the ninja party Saturday, but we didn't know many people and didn't have stamps... so, there you go. :frown:

[astcell]

I gave my stamp away.

[shannon]

I gave my stamp away.

Really? Why?

[barkode]

I gave my stamp away.

Ast, that's a pretty shitty way to treat a group of people that have shown you nothing but respect over the years, especially considering your employer and your penchant for both covert and overt photography, which might make some other people at con really uncomfortable.

We were really open with giving out invites this year. If you had a friend that wanted in all you had to do was tell me. At least I'm assuming this guy was your friend, and not someone you ran into in the elevator at 4am.

In any event, we'd appreciate a little consideration next time. With all the potentially stupid things people can do at defcon (like the kid I didn't know that dropped a bunch of GHB then walked into the party at defcon 7 and promptly fell to the floor, only to be revived by paramedics and rushed to the hospital), it would be dandy if you could leave some of the discretion to the people actually throwing the event.

People think this is just all about elitism, and it's not. Besides the fact that we primarily want to party with our friends and people we respect, our parties don't get shut down or broken up because we're responsible about the way we party and respectful of the property and the con, and much of this is due to us being selective about who's there. It's difficult to maintain that when people like you play doorman and give out their invitations.

In any event, we had a great crowd this year, possibly the best ever. I hope we get so fortunate with the same great people, and more, next year.

On a side note, 2 years ago we had such a problem with counterfeits I literally did serial-numbered holograms. This year we just went die-cut vinyl, and more than 20 people showed up with fake stickers. Makes me wonder about next year.

[Voltage Spike]

I understand that astcell can defend himself, but I don't know when to shut my mouth...

Ast, that's a pretty shitty way to treat a group of people

While I see your point, you also state:

We were really open with giving out invites this year. If you had a friend that wanted in all you had to do was tell me.

You are upset that he invited a friend to your party, but you also seem to trust him in choosing his friends. If he had said, "I have this friend...", would you really have arranged a face-to-face meeting before being generous with an invite?



PS: Thanks for another great party. I think it was by far my favorite of the year, and your bartender was excellent and super-friendly (even if I can't remember his name). Even the whole incident with checking IDs (twice) went smoothly, and I was impressed with how well the crowd responded. Plus, it was just hilarious to see the Edward Forty-hands guys show their IDs without violating the game. :biggrin:

[shannon]

I understand that astcell can defend himself, but I don't know when to shut my mouth...

hehe, i feel your pain.. neither do I.. again, my husband will concur



You are upset that he invited a friend to your party, but you also seem to trust him in choosing his friends. If he had said, "I have this friend...", would you really have arranged a face-to-face meeting before being generous with an invite?


I guess the question is... did he just give the sticker to some random guy in the elevator?? If so, I would think that barkode has a huge reason to be upset. If not, and it was a friend, then the courtesy of letting the Ninja's know beforehand would have been a nice thing to do. It's hard to tell someone's 'tone' when you read it on a forum.. was Astell being snide?r Was he just saying "I apprecited the invite but couldnt go.. here was a friend of mine that was cool and I knew the Ninjas enough that they would just my judgement on whom I would give the sticker too." ?

General Statment:

I would think that throwing those AWESOME parties takes ALOT of effort, time and money. It would only seem normal that someone would wish to protect that, and a very cool thing to still be open to new people. Siimply, those that are throwing the party are ultimately responsible for those that come. Respect and thanks should be given, not flames or animosity because they are doing something little that you may not agree with.

Is it wrong to want to protect yourself? Especially with what happened because of Asshole.. it's a VERY good thing that DefCon did not get Shut down COMPLETLY and those throwing the parties didnt get hauled down with Metro because there ~were~ underrage drinkers there (I think Metro chose to ignore the fact that the underrage drinkers had probably gotten alcohol at the parties BEFORE they got there.. many thanks to Metro and the Goons for cooling those fires).

Whether it be stickers, door-men, or carding at the bars.. anything to protect yourself should be OK and I think it's wrong to criticise those that do so. Those that have an 'open door policy' for their parties should also be commended for their trusting attitudes and we, as their friends, should respect their parties and only bring those we would trust not to get them into trouble.

Put yourself in their shoes.. if you threw a party that was open-door and the next morning you discovered that your DJ Equipment had been stolen.. or you found yourself locked up at Metro for serving to a Minor.. or your very expensive decoration had gotten broken.. wouldn't YOU be smacking yourself in the head and saying 'what could I done to have prevented THAT?' Apparently those that were trying to protect themselves (stickers, doorman) Had gone through a bit of that already and were trying to prevent it from happening again. Why is that wrong and why wouldn't you be sympathetic/empathetic to them and help them protect themselves as well?

[astcell]

Oh wait let me put in some more detail. I planned to and wanted to go, really! I enjoyed the gatherings the last two years very much. Then this year a friend of mine wanted to go and was going on and on about this great group having a party he had heard of, but you needed this little sticker. I said, "Oh this one?" and held up my badge to show it. Yes! Well how could I say no? I remember from years past that no guests were allowed in, it was the stickered person only, so I offered my sticker. Hell yes I wanted to go, but not sharing would be like saying "I get to see Santa Claus and you don't, nya nya nya."

Now Barkode, I had no idea that I could have asked for an extra sticker because I was so sure about the security. Two years ago I could not even get my (then) wife into the party because she did not have a sticker. I did not give it away like it was meaningless, not at all. And I knew if the recipient was a dolt that it could reflect on me.

Shannon, you said it a lot better than I could have, thanks!

So I am sorry if I made any sort of negative reflection on the group with that statement. That is not my intent. The Ninjas rock and I have the utmost respect for everyone who puts such effort into the group year after tear.

Now on two other notes: It turned out to be a good thing that I dd not go because there was another "situation" that I became very involved in. Secondly, I don't do photography for my old employer any more, that job ended last September.

[Xodia]

Yeah.. I really wish you or Xodia would've talked to some of the other people in the group... more importiantly myself and craSH who pretty much founded it, are the PoC for the biggest areas, and are trying to steer things in the right direction among many other things.... As everyone knows we can party well, I'd like to work towards being respected for real reasons. You see Shmoo group throwing a strippercon?
Just a few things to throw out there about this:
I was just getting strippers for my room, Static is the one who took to Kinkos for stickers and all that. I then decided that it would probably be cool to put the strippers up at the penthouse party since so many people were starting to hear about it anyway.

So I repeat and repeat again, the Neg9 branding of my getting strippers was not my idea. Hell, I'm not even really a part of Neg9 when it comes down to it. Thats you California people.

All things aside, Lets just have good cons in the future. Fighting over the details of a party that didn't even happen isn't important. Neg9 can do some cool things in the future, you guys have good projects planned.

[Abby_Normal]

I just wanted to point out that we had a totaly open door policy, and had almost no problems at all. I think we had to kick out 4 people all weekend. Conversly, the party accross the hall was invite only, and they had problems. We only started turning folks away when it go too crowded. Even then, all you needed to get by the door was one of our names.

So I don't think that's it. I think it's more the kind of party. It seems to me that the parties that had the most problem were the "sit around and drink" parties. Whist we were more of a dance party.

The Ninjas had the same deal from what I heard (I had an invite, but never had a chance to go.) You give people something to do other than just drink. I am sorry I didn't get down to see first hand, next year for sure.

[shannon]

And the party was very awesome, Abby. Dancin' with ya was one of my highlights of Con!

THanks for letting me Dance!

[Abby_Normal]

Just a few things to throw out there about this:
I was just getting strippers for my room, Static is the one who took to Kinkos for stickers and all that. I then decided that it would probably be cool to put the strippers up at the penthouse party since so many people were starting to hear about it anyway.
We didn't mind the strippers, except that when she showed up she was a total cunt. She actually demanded to be tipped up front, and jacked up the price. She was told where to go.

It would have been fun, but not needed. I think we will skip it next year. I am looking in to go go dancers and burly-q type entertainers though.

[DaKahuna]

This year the talks and cons, next year the parties !!

[ndex]

(I was getting ice for Siviak and Icetre's party...because Asshole couldn't.).

Now.. who could have expected to see THOSE names in the first paragraph??? ... wait, where's my sarcasm tag?


Asshole said (for the first time to me, second time to Vega), "I threw a Redbull out of the window and security saw it." At this point we mostly brushed off what he was saying as drunken banter and kept trying to get him to just go to sleep. At this point security knocked on the door.

<snip>

I let the guard into our room and he was instantly yelling and being very angry about someone throwing a Red Bull out the window and it landing by a security guard. He used the phrase, "Almost killed the guard.". So, five guards and two metros later we had nearly been arrested (if not for Twinvega and I having to give security anything they asked for including two black badges and three normal human badges and Kaene's ID which they dubbed "suspicious").


You let the hotel security JACK YOUR BLACK BADGES? *CACKLE*


All of that combined turned into a clusterfuck. We ended up walking back to none other than the Alexis Park so Asshole aka Jon would have a chance to sober up. It didn't work. He's still pretty bad as I write this. He is no longer in DC859, he is no longer coming to Defcon. Apparently after we were ejected more people were throwing things from windows and that just made hotel security more angry.

To close I will leave the final news of Asshole from the tonight:

Asshole has offered to suck Highwiz's cock in order to gain back a bit of respect and dignity.



could you point me to a url for the definitions of "respect" and "dignity" there because, I'm returning a cast error

[ndex]

I just wanted to point out that we had a totaly open door policy, and had almost no problems at all.


Your statement here reminds me of the admin whose firewall *almost* works... Sometimes it's ok to be an elitist cunt if it means your protecting yourself from getting in trouble because someone in your vicinity is a complete fucktard. This would extend to being in the presence of IED's etc. It's just rational self interest to be cautious, isn't it?


So I don't think that's it. I think it's more the kind of party. It seems to me that the parties that had the most problem were the "sit around and drink" parties. Whist we were more of a dance party.


Well, yeah... people with energy, life and vitality; people who dance because it makes them happy, are less likely to be self destructive ass heads, or so I've observed. Your brain needs blood to function and dancing makes that happen, yay for the obvious.

I *am* an elitist cunt (in my own sweet way) and refuse to associate with people who do not understand the law of accelleration of falling bodies and their potential for lethality. This is part of a very essential grasp of the simplest laws of physics which allow human beings to distinguish themselves from monkeys flinging shit.

This asshole threw a perfectly good RedBull out the window. Adding to that the fact that there was foot traffic below the window and that someone could have been fatally injured, there's no defending him.

[Abby_Normal]

Your statement here reminds me of the admin whose firewall *almost* works... .

No security is 100% and all firewalls mostly work, so it's not a very good comparison. Any admin who puts all their faith in just the firewall is an idiot. We didn't rely on one layer of security to keep things under control.

But like most good security, aside from the door people who did the ID checks, you were largely unaware of the rest of it, unless you tried to cause a problem. Security doesn't need to be visiable to be effective.

Off the top of my head I can only recall 3 problems, one a guy who tried to order room service, a few people tried to open windows, and someone tried to light up some weed. All of which were stoped and removed frrom the party.

Besides, most of the invite only parties used stickers for validation, which could be eaisly defeted by a visit to kinkos.

Sometimes it's ok to be an elitist cunt if it means your protecting yourself from getting in trouble because someone in your vicinity is a complete fucktard. This would extend to being in the presence of IED's etc. It's just rational self interest to be cautious, isn't it?

We had no damage, no major problems and everyone had a good time. There was no underage drinking. But as you weren't there you can only form opinions based on hearsay.

The Ninja's did a great job, so did the Goons and all my people. Both systems have pros and cons.

Just remeber, there is a huge difference between Security concerns and just being an elitist asshole.

[barkode]

Oh wait let me put in some more detail. I planned to and wanted to go, really! I enjoyed the gatherings the last two years very much. Then this year a friend of mine wanted to go and was going on and on about this great group having a party he had heard of, but you needed this little sticker. I said, "Oh this one?" and held up my badge to show it. Yes! Well how could I say no? I remember from years past that no guests were allowed in, it was the stickered person only, so I offered my sticker. Hell yes I wanted to go, but not sharing would be like saying "I get to see Santa Claus and you don't, nya nya nya."

Now Barkode, I had no idea that I could have asked for an extra sticker because I was so sure about the security. Two years ago I could not even get my (then) wife into the party because she did not have a sticker. I did not give it away like it was meaningless, not at all. And I knew if the recipient was a dolt that it could reflect on me.


Astcell - I totally understand now. The guy was really a friend of yours so we'd have been happy to have him anyway. No harm no foul.

That said, we've known you for years man, just let us know you've got a friend that wants to come and we'd surely be happy to have both of you. Hehe. :)

Thanks for the followup. Oh, and if you couldn't get your wife in 2 years ago someone needs to get their head smacked about that. That's just silly.

[erehwon]

I never get invited to parties... :cry: except the 303. :wink:

[astcell]

Astcell - I totally understand now. The guy was really a friend of yours so we'd have been happy to have him anyway. No harm no foul.

That said, we've known you for years man, just let us know you've got a friend that wants to come and we'd surely be happy to have both of you. Hehe. :)

Thanks for the followup. Oh, and if you couldn't get your wife in 2 years ago someone needs to get their head smacked about that. That's just silly.

Thank you for clearing this up, next year I will bring a friend, if I have any left after all the drunken and passed out pics of me are posted :>

And hey, not letting my wife in may have been a good call, she is out of my life now. If she was not good enough for the party, I should have known she was not good enough for me!!! Rock on!

[astcell]

I never get invited to parties... :cry: except the 303. :wink:

That's because you like to walk up to a person and ask if others at the party know they are a fed.

[Hardware]

So, um, apparently Red Bulls do not have wings?
That was bad...

[Hardware]

That's because you like to walk up to a person and ask if others at the party know they are a fed.
So If I don't accuse people of being a fed I'll be invited to more parties?

[hackajar]

So If I don't accuse people of being a fed I'll be invited to more parties?

Or getting un-invited to parties like me :neutral:

[staticblac]

The first rule about Defcon parties is you do not talk about defcon parties.

[Chris]

The first rule about Defcon parties is you do not talk about defcon parties.


No need to talk about it...defconpics.org says it all for you :biggrin:

[cereal76]

You let the hotel security JACK YOUR BLACK BADGES? *CACKLE*
[/FONT]
No no, the LVM have my black badge.

[hackajar]

No no, the LVM have my black badge.

Is that for real? Do you need it back? :wink:

[astcell]

We need to demonetize the Black Badge. Turns yours in for a new color to be selected. Inform security that black badge holders are to be arrested on site. That ought to get them to turn it loose. :>

[Abby_Normal]

No no, the LVM have my black badge.
I think they may have turned them over to the goons, but I could be wrong.

[ndex]

I think they may have turned them over to the goons, but I could be wrong.

Are you kidding?

After 15 years of dealing with DefCon summers, you think they'd give back the badges?

I wouldn't... I'd taunt you mercilessly and humiliate you at every opportunity.

I mean... it's such a burn. *cackle*

However, since we're all friends here, or whatever they call it now, I will concede that the classy thing to do is not to draw attention to how losing the badge is really the same as not having earned it in the first place.

Anyway, enough of my "trying to fit in".

I vote to lock this thread and never speak of the shame again, unless it's behind your back of course.

[TheCotMan]

I vote to lock this thread and never speak of the shame again, unless it's behind your back of course.
It will not bother me if any other mod closes this thread. Me? I'd close it when people have stopped posting in it for a while:
Without some outlet to complain about how this, "ruined their defcon," users might take their frustrations on those that don't deserve it, or just start a new thread about it.

[Abby_Normal]

Are you kidding?

After 15 years of dealing with DefCon summers, you think they'd give back the badges?
.

I based the stated that there was a goon in my penthouse who had one of the black badges that had been taken from the group. I don't know what happened to the rest of them

[Widge]

This was my first Defcon. Unfortunately I met Asshole this year. He owes me $140. That boy shouldn't have been at Defcon, I'll be more cautious next year. I asked him about binary WIFI driver and he didn't know what I was talking about (OpenBSD's anti blobs). I almost missed “Fun with 802.11 Device Drivers” because Asshole was screwing around. Xodia was nice enough to let me sleep on his couch. I funded filling the neg9 bathtub with assorted drinks (soda and bottled water), so we could chill there between parties.

Asshole took advantage of the situation. While I was out watching talks and collecting information, that Kentucky inbred went berserk. I walked up to the room as security was arriving. They almost didn't enter the room, then they heard screaming; Asshole was crying like a little girl, loud enough to be heard outside the hotel room. The guards consulted with each other and decided that was enough to enter. Thank you Xodia for telling hotel security I wasn't part of that room. I was one of the few people who got to stay because of your quick thinking.

Hope to see everyone next year.

[Xodia]

. Thank you Xodia for telling hotel security I wasn't part of that room. I was one of the few people who got to stay because of your quick thinking.

Hope to see everyone next year.

No problem, people have to look out for people. Its the right thing to do.

Heh, I hope to see people next year too...at Blackhat. :)

[barkode]

Ok I wasn't going to get into this, but is there a picture of this guy somewhere? I'm wondering if it's the same fuckup we 86'd late Friday Night/early Saturday morning from the Irvine Underground skybox. If not, anyone here know who that guy was?

On a side note, if there's a guinness record for "longest bounce", that would have taken the cake.

On another side note, thanks to IVU for being cool and welcoming when we decided to show up at 2:30 in the morning (with 50 people and $500 worth of newly acquired booze) and jumpstart a thing prior to shifting that room over to Ninja the next morning. :)

[Chris]

Ok I wasn't going to get into this, but is there a picture of this guy somewhere? I'm wondering if it's the same fuckup we 86'd late Friday Night/early Saturday morning from the Irvine Underground skybox. If not, anyone here know who that guy was?

On a side note, if there's a guinness record for "longest bounce", that would have taken the cake.

On another side note, thanks to IVU for being cool and welcoming when we decided to show up at 2:30 in the morning (with 50 people and $500 worth of newly acquired booze) and jumpstart a thing prior to shifting that room over to Ninja the next morning. :)


Barkode...

Not the same guy...but you are correct..that was the longest bounce....EVER!

[bascule]

Ok I wasn't going to get into this, but is there a picture of this guy somewhere? I'm wondering if it's the same fuckup we 86'd late Friday Night/early Saturday morning from the Irvine Underground skybox.

GIS asshole + defcon =

http://23b.org/albums/tacitus_defcon14/aal.sized.jpg

[hackajar]

He is now officially doomed if he returns! Good show bascule!

[TheCotMan]

People who have been to Defcon understand this PSA (and realize I'm stating the obvious), but people new to Defcon might not:
If this person has been banned from Defcon, don't do anything stupid to this person at Defcon.
If you see them, just notify a Security Goon, so they can take care of it:

* Going to hotel/casino security may require you to provide an ID, and fill out papers and require you to interact with him.
* Taking matters into your own hands could end up causing you to be the next "asshole" (person who is the "last straw that breaks the camel's back") and causes Las Vegas Metro and Hotel/Casino to come down hard on everyone else.

Security Goons can deal with the Hotel/Casino security, and interact with this person in a way, so as to not cause security to take a greater interest in our activities.

This PSA has been brought to you by the Letter 0x44 and the nubers 0x31 and 0x35. :-)

[hackajar]

Oops! Didn't mean to imply Assassination Politics (http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm) Sorry Cot.

[TheCotMan]

Oops! Didn't mean to imply Assassination Politics (http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm) Sorry Cot.
Heh-heh. Amusing. Sounds like a potential Defcon talk.

[added:]
[By the way, my reply was about the picture. I've seen mob-justice, and it isn't pretty-- it is kind of like what happens to some misfits/geeks in public school, but more physical, and violent. I'm not removing the picture. Someone else can remove it if they want to. [Martha Stewart voice]Leaving it up is a good thing.[/voice]]

[Abby_Normal]

I think in some ways we are all to blame. We as adults need to keep a closer eye on the younger people. I met asshole, he was a pleasent, but not very bright kid. We should have kept a closer eye on him.

We all knew the kid was dumb, he should have been kept on a shorter leash.

I think next year we all need to work a litter harder to prevent the underage drinking and general dumbass-ness.

[DJ Jackalope]

I think in some ways we are all to blame. We as adults need to keep a closer eye on the younger people. I met asshole, he was a pleasent, but not very bright kid. We should have kept a closer eye on him.

We all knew the kid was dumb, he should have been kept on a shorter leash.

I think next year we all need to work a litter harder to prevent the underage drinking and general dumbass-ness.

I totally agree! But then...who would we have fun with?

[Abby_Normal]

I totally agree! But then...who would we have fun with?

Why don't we just make all the underaged congoers serve us as our monkey butlers?

That would keep them out of trouble, and provide lots of entertainment for us!

[TheCotMan]

I think in some ways we are all to blame. We as adults need to keep a closer eye on the younger people. I met asshole, he was a pleasent, but not very bright kid. We should have kept a closer eye on him.

We all knew the kid was dumb, he should have been kept on a shorter leash.

I think next year we all need to work a litter harder to prevent the underage drinking and general dumbass-ness.

I don't think I'll prevent underage drinking, but that does not mean I will be encouraging it.

People have done dumb things at Defcon for years, and I have learned the value of apathy when it comes to observing various pranks. Risks to human life or risks for serious injury certainly would be worthy of intervention, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to police people for drinking or simple pranks at con-- that is work, and I am there to enjoy myself. :-)

[Xodia]

Why don't we just make all the underaged congoers serve us as our monkey butlers?

That would keep them out of trouble, and provide lots of entertainment for us!

I agree! Wait a second... :tongue:

[Chris]

I think in some ways we are all to blame. We as adults need to keep a closer eye on the younger people. I met asshole, he was a pleasent, but not very bright kid. We should have kept a closer eye on him.

We all knew the kid was dumb, he should have been kept on a shorter leash.

I think next year we all need to work a litter harder to prevent the underage drinking and general dumbass-ness.

I tend to disagree. I met this asshole before the incident and almost beat the shit out of him. He is an asshole. We wasn't pleasant, he was a jerk.

[Vyrus]

u know what realy sux about this inadent isnt even what happend, its that it sets a precedent. defcon parties are famous for pushing the limit in any way possible "if you can get in to one" and over time you SLOWLY get to know the right ppl and are better off for it, because hopefully when your done the ppl you meet turn into more than just "drinking buddies". this kinda stuff however is the kinda stuff that makes it hard for stuff like that to happen. dont get me wrong, i manage to troll into my fair share of mayhem in a box gatherings through the fiew and far between connections i have but for the most part im just another random number at defcon. stuff like this dosent help the rep for those of us "faceless minions"

im not about to sanction what happend but i supose this is a call to all traditional "partie givers" at defcon. "evrybody has an asshole, but some of us know how to keep ours shut"

.. please keep this in mind.

[hackajar]

Vyrus, you can come to our Vegas 2.0 parties any time you want! (just don't forget the chicken;)

[Vyrus]

hehe thanx :P