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  • #16
    Re: The Asshole Fiasco

    there are a few points i'd like to raise amid all this. by no means is this to be construed as me stepping up to defend or rationalize the idiotic actions of Asshole, but merely to contextualize them. i feel it's important to keep things in perspective and not turn our grief over those affected into a public burning. (although i wouldn't negatively judge a public flogging, perhaps)

    important considerations...

    1. intoxication changes people - sometimes when a person is drunk their true, inner self comes out. but this is not always the case. when i was playing with the breathalyzer Thorn and i had a very interesting discussion about how people act at various levels of intoxication. i mentioned how my friends and i experimented ourselves in the past with consuming drinks at a steady, timed pace as we monitored our B.A.C. in order to learn how our bodies reacted to alcohol and also how our minds reacted to inebriation. we were all pretty shocked to learn how when you approach .08 (legal driving limit) you start to "feel" not as drunk... your inhibitions drop and you don't really think you're getting loaded. Thorn told me that this is not the only stage of bad judgement... eventually people can reach a point where they know they're drunk and simply do not care anymore. Soccer moms and family dads who would never do something so stupid as to endanger others have been pulled over and just stagger out of the car, totally sauced, and looked at him as if they didn't have a care in the world about their assinine choices.

    it's not the choices and actions with which i take issue directly (horrible though they were). it's hard to fully blame a person in that state for being an ass while they're drunk... their decision to irresponsibly get 110% hammered is what makes me want to throw things, since it is the sort of thing that ruins it for everyone else on so many levels.

    2. responsible intoxication is so very easy - those who know me are aware that i support all drug use and totall legalization of every single mind-altering chemical substance on earth. i favor harsh penalities, however, for those who would abuse such a freedom and hurt others in the process. one of the pieces of advice we see talked about in the community is the use of a sharpie marker on your arm to keep a running log of what substances you've taken, where you're staying, whom to contact if you get into trouble, etc. a big aspect of partying, at least for me, is being safe and smart about it... being with friends you trust who watch your back. bascule, pipes, and others who are familiar with highly elevated states of mind could join me in telling you about the critical "S"es... set, setting, and strain.

    if you don't take those sorts of factors into consideration, even with intoxicants like alcohol, you're not being a good citizen and friend to your fellows. Asshole chose to get hammered-ass drunk and i'm going to assume he did this without telling his friends and other guests of his intentions to really tie one on. every circle of friends has its designated responsible figures... not squares who stand in a corner, scolding those who approach the bar to refill their glass, but people who can be counted on to keep a clear head and watchful eye on the scene so that no one gets out of hand. i have a better time when i'm partying knowing that i'm in the company of people like mouse, meee, Thorn, etc. they're not abstainers and they're not always even sober enough themselves to, say, drive someone somewhere... they're just always mature enough to keep their heads together even while insanity abounds around them.

    3. poor planning and irresponsible partying ruins it for everyone else - not like this really has to be said. still, everyone should keep in mind that getting totally plowed and having no backup plan doesn't just result in bruises or vomit stains on your own self... it can lead to repressive rules, restrictive policies, and assinine laws down the road which hinder everyone else eventhough they didn't do anything wrong.

    4. many of us have made bad choices before and are lucky that nothing went horribly wrong - i can recall (although not vividly) my time of absolute greatest drunkenness (in the superlative sense, not the pleasurable sense) at DefCon. it was DC10... well, pre-DefCon 10 actually. Renderman and i were hanging with two girls, Corinne and Lorna, in pool #2. while he wasn't sharing my room, like always render had full access to it for gear storage. all four of us were drinking poolside... and i don't know exactly how much rum & coke i consumed, but i remember the astonishment i felt at how badly my legs were holding me up once i got out of the boyant water.

    after that, it was bad. i didn't even make it to dinner with render and the girls that evening. i'm told they tried to get into the room (either to wake me or for their stuff) but i had bolted the door (a reflex when i'm at a hotel). i may or may not have thrown up... i say this because my clothes felt like a mess when i awoke, but weren't dirty since i had clearly been standing in the shower with them on. had i fallen asleep on my back i may have been a few coughs away from pulling a hendrix. throwing something heavy out a window would have been an equally dangerous decision at the time, but i wouldn't have thought myself above it at the time. as it turns out, i woke up just fine and no one told me stories of projectile vommiting or running around without pants or anything.

    many of us have had close calls and only luck or fate kept us in the clear. let's take this terrible incident as a reminder to party safe and party together... our community does a terrific job of policing itself, better than any other friends i have. i thank everyone for always being there for me when i'm plowed and i am proud to always be there for you, too.
    "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
    - Trent Reznor

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    • #17
      Re: The Asshole Fiasco

      Originally posted by Deviant Ollam
      ... monitored our B.A.C. in order to learn how our bodies reacted to alcohol and also how our minds reacted to inebriation. we were all pretty shocked to learn how when you approach .08 (legal driving limit) you start to "feel" not as drunk... your inhibitions drop and you don't really think you're getting loaded.
      This is actually an interesting point, because when I took the breathalizer I felt pretty nailed but only registered .08. Knowing this gave my (clear?) mind the thumbs up to consume considerably more. Oops. Fortunately, I think I may have only extended to making an ass out of myself through conversations to follow (sorry Nikita?).

      That said, it can be rationalized to understand what may or may not have led to the Asshole scenario. BUT, it sounds like the pounding is still necessary to drive home to Asshole that this is NOT COOL. No, no one was cool with what happened. No, it was not okay because you were drunk off your ass. No, you should not come within eyesight of any of the goons that had to clean up after your mess, or any of the party folks that were fucked because of you.

      Yes, you should generally avoid being within arms distance of about 90% of conference attendees. Yes, you owe the world and a popsicle to the Neg9 guys that you fucked over the most. Yes, consider that your inability to stay within means of control had someone's life within inches of merit.
      if it gets me nowhere, I'll go there proud; and I'm gonna go there free.

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      • #18
        Re: The Asshole Fiasco

        The red bull didn't hit anyone, and it was a riv maintenance guy who saw it hit, then saw what room it came from because asshole was still at the window.

        I also believe that a Trespass is only valid for a year, so odds are that everyone can come back and they won't get hassled by the casino (unless they get arrested again, maybe then it would be a problem.)

        Screw defcon once, shame on you, screw defcon twice, goons beat you.
        --- The fuck? Have you ever BEEN to Defcon?

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        • #19
          Re: The Asshole Fiasco

          Originally posted by kallahar
          The red bull didn't hit anyone
          You're stating the difference between luck and irreversable damage.
          if it gets me nowhere, I'll go there proud; and I'm gonna go there free.

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          • #20
            Re: The Asshole Fiasco

            Someone deserves a swift kick to the nuts...
            A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on.
            -
            William S. Burroughs

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            • #21
              Re: The Asshole Fiasco

              Actually, a tresspass is permament. I'll give the quick rundown here to get folks up to speed:

              1. Asshole - banned. From the hotel and Defcon. If he ever gets the ass beating he so desperately deserves, someone give him one for me. Because of him we had to make every party stop, eject its patrons, then begin carding people. This caused a clusterfuck of epic proportions. His actions also caused LVM to take a close look at us as well.

              2. Twinvega, Xodia, rest of the Neg9 kids - not banned from Defcon, banned from hotel. We fully understand that their biggest mistake in all this was exercising some poor judgement in their choice of friends. In fact, I have Vega's black badge right next to me (PM me Vega). So, at the moment they wont be staying at the Riv next year, but they can come to Defcon. I talked to the head of hotel security before I left yesterday and he was pretty adamant with the idea that once you were 86'd, you're 86d. In most cases I think thats the right way to view it, but we'll work on him about that in this case. Either way, anyone whos in Neg9 who isnt Asshole, probably shouldnt be too worried about next year.

              I return whatever i wish . Its called FREEDOWM OF RANDOMNESS IN A HECK . CLUSTERED DEFEATED CORn FORUM . Welcome to me

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              • #22
                Re: The Asshole Fiasco

                Ya know, every year with all of the parties going on people are always trying to get me to vouch for them and get them into the party. This is why I only vouch for people that I know well.

                We hear all the time how we (goons) are dicks who think we are better than everyone else and how we are elitists, etc. Then we hear how the guys running the parties are dicks and trying to be too exclusive and it's bullshit blah blah blah....

                Well...this is why. Ninja, Ghetto, 303, IVU, Hacker Pimps, and the Staff are not going to get our asses tossed out of the hotel so that people won't say we are jerks. Vouching to get someone into a party puts MY ass on the line and I don't see why I should do this for someone I don't know...regardless of the color of their badge or who their friends may or may not be.

                Bottom line, if I don't know you, I won't get you into the food court, let alone the parties of people that have been cool enough to extend me the ability to get other people in.
                perl -e 'print pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'

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                • #23
                  Re: The Asshole Fiasco

                  Originally posted by noid
                  I talked to the head of hotel security before I left yesterday and he was pretty adamant with the idea that once you were 86'd, you're 86d. In most cases I think thats the right way to view it, but we'll work on him about that in this case. Either way, anyone whos in Neg9 who isnt Asshole, probably shouldnt be too worried about next year.
                  Well that's good to hear. Because I know everyone wants to hear it, here is my part of the story:

                  I got a call saying Twinvega and Xodia were in the room with Metro and Riv security. Me and someone else went to that floor and asked some of the goons walking out of the room if they could give any details, and one goon (I didn't know his name) advised me that anyone staying in the room linked to that one (which was 3 floors down) should get their belongings out of there immediatley. I went down and started throwing my belongings into my bag, but I wasn't fast enough because security came in and that's when I got 86'd.

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                  • #24
                    Re: The Asshole Fiasco

                    Originally posted by Noid
                    1. Asshole - banned. From the hotel and Defcon. If he ever gets the ass beating he so desperately deserves, someone give him one for me.

                    Good to hear. Also, please add a beating in there for me too.


                    Originally posted by Chris
                    We hear all the time how we (goons) are dicks who think we are better than everyone else and how we are elitists, etc. Then we hear how the guys running the parties are dicks and trying to be too exclusive and it's bullshit blah blah blah....


                    I believe during the course of the night I was called everything from a "bitch" to a "Nazi" for yelling at people to have their ID's in hand and to "Jug It or Chuck It".

                    But I look at it this way: Someone had to do it so others could have fun.



                    Well...this is why. Ninja, Ghetto, 303, IVU, Hacker Pimps, and the Staff are not going to get our asses tossed out of the hotel so that people won't say we are jerks. Vouching to get someone into a party puts MY ass on the line and I don't see why I should do this for someone I don't know...regardless of the color of their badge or who their friends may or may not be.

                    Bottom line, if I don't know you, I won't get you into the food court, let alone the parties of people that have been cool enough to extend me the ability to get other people in.


                    Chris, this is very well stated and I agree.




                    Speaking of being a "Door Nazi", I would like to thank all of the people who understood why we needed to card people at the door and whatnot. Those of you who were nice and joked around with me made me feel better about having to yell at everyone.
                    "It is difficult not to wonder whether that combination of elements which produces a machine for labor does not create also a soul of sorts, a dull resentful metallic will, which can rebel at times". Pearl S. Buck

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                    • #25
                      Re: The Asshole Fiasco

                      It is good to know that it did not actually hit someone as we were told. That should help smooth things over with the Rivera. "Asshole" should have gotten a lot more that what he did for all the damage he caused esp the parties getting shut down. "Asshole" simply did not have enough expirence with drinking to be able to tell when he was done even after reciving warnings from many of us and still continuing to drink. I just again want to thank all of those who helped this situation out in someway. You understood he was not really affliated with neg9 and made sure that was known. And as lil freak said, we who were checking at the door willingly gave up our nights so everyone else could still have one.

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                      • #26
                        Re: The Asshole Fiasco

                        The measure of Defcon is not what we can do, but what we can do when the shit hits the fan. I had a front row/center seat at the Penthouse when security came by. Everyone was so helpful, courteous and respectful that I am sure the guards thought we were being facetious. In reality, EVERYONE was on the side of what was right. This is an awesome group to be a part of.

                        And like we keep hearing, WE are Defcon. WE make the con. Your .005% contribution adds to the entire evolution. It is a responsibilty. Be proud. Be Defcon. Don't be an asshole.

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                        • #27
                          Re: The Asshole Fiasco

                          Originally posted by lil_freak


                          Speaking of being a "Door Nazi", I would like to thank all of the people who understood why we needed to card people at the door and whatnot. Those of you who were nice and joked around with me made me feel better about having to yell at everyone.
                          I'd like to say a big sorry to anyone I was bitchy to on saturday night (aside from the Riv Security, they had it coming).

                          I went out to see Penn and Teller and when I returned to the Riv I was told I couldn't go back to MY OWN room with out showing ID. But once I heard the whole story I calmed down.
                          "There are no failed experiments, only more data"

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                          • #28
                            Re: The Asshole Fiasco

                            Originally posted by lil_freak
                            Speaking of being a "Door Nazi", I would like to thank all of the people who understood why we needed to card people at the door and whatnot. Those of you who were nice and joked around with me made me feel better about having to yell at everyone.
                            Speaking as someone who has had to door-goon at parties with similar issues, it was nice to see you had a good attitude and a sense of humor about it. Believe me -- there are some of us who would have been there watching your back, had someone gotten rowdy while we were there.
                            I check my sanity with a wristwatch. What do you check yours with, a dipstick?

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                            • #29
                              Re: The Asshole Fiasco

                              Side note, can we use a picture of Asshole in next years scavenger hunt when they ask for an asshat?


                              AcidicA
                              AcidicA, another orange shirted goon.
                              myspace.com/acidicasound


                              You throw like girls. I know, I helped run the dunk tank ;)

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                              • #30
                                Re: The Asshole Fiasco

                                Originally posted by AcidicA
                                Side note, can we use a picture of Asshole in next years scavenger hunt when they ask for an asshat?
                                If that's the case, I have a few nice pics of when we tagged him.
                                In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

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