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  • #46
    Re: Starting on Thursday....

    Originally posted by noid View Post
    Um..ya..the Monkey Butler thing..

    They have nothing to do with the conference in any sort of official capacity. Let's not do anything to encourage the belief that they do. Overall, I'm pretty irritated with the Monkey Butler thing. The MB thing was a creation of some of our more overzealous forum members and should probably be abandoned. They're attendees in blue shirts and nothing more.
    They are helpers. No more. No less. They have no official capacity and I do believe that that was made evident to them. I do apologize if you had issue with the concept.

    Regards,

    valkyrie
    _____________________________________
    sapere aude

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Starting on Thursday....

      The monkey butler system could help solve some problems at con if they were taken as a volunteer service resource. I could envision circumstances where a few extra bodies were needed to help with even simple tasks, and monkey butlers could help with this.

      The original idea for Monkey Butlers was for a group of people that would step out and fetch as needed, like finding speakers if needed, or getting supplies for parties, or going out the get a lunch order, and be rewarded with whatever.

      The original idea was very good. It included the concept of a single place people could all go to volunteer their time to help in some way, even if not in any official capacity.

      Really, I don't think that using MB as security is a good idea unless security goons ask for them, and the probably won't ever need the help, but I do think they could provide a collection of volunteers.

      How nice would it be to have a monkey butler available to go get take-out for a small group of people planning a party? Heck, a monkey butler could wait in a line for a person, on a one-to-one relationship (one person holding a space in line for one person) as needed and then get out of line when the person returns to claim their space in line.

      I wouldn't want to be a MB, as I like having my Defcon time to myself, but I'm sure there are people out there who would like the opportunity to pay money for go to a con and volunteer a few hours each day. However, the concept is a good one, and could provide people that want to help, and opportunity to do so.

      The most difficult problems I see with any kind of Monkey Butler system relate to trust. Both the trust in the people that is only gained when you spend time with them (especially in difficult circumstances) where their true mettle is exposed, and the trust that they are reliable.

      Like with security goons, you really want to know the guy that has your back really has your back, and can hold their own. I don't see security being able to take on extra help like that unless they really trust them (in both ways.)

      Managed well, even if such a volunteer group wasn't part of any official Defcon, they could help out the social situations and parties if such help was needed.

      So the question would then become:
      Is there a need for a base of volunteers by other attendees of Defcon to borrow for whatever reasons?

      If there isn't, then there really wouldn't be a need to provide a service that wouldn't be used.
      Last edited by TheCotMan; August 6, 2009, 22:51.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Starting on Thursday....

        Originally posted by TheCotMan View Post
        The monkey butler system could help solve some problems at con if they were taken as a volunteer service resource. I could envision circumstances where a few extra bodies were needed to help with even simple tasks, and monkey butlers could help with this.

        The original idea for Monkey Butlers was for a group of people that would step out and fetch as needed, like finding speakers if needed, or getting supplies for parties, or going out the get a lunch order, and be rewarded with whatever.

        The original idea was very good. It included the concept of a single place people could all go to volunteer their time to help in some way, even if not in any official capacity.

        Really, I don't think that using MB as security is a good idea unless security goons ask for them, and the probably won't ever need the help, but I do think they could provide a collection of volunteers.

        How nice would it be to have a monkey butler available to go get take-out for a small group of people planning a party? Heck, a monkey butler could wait in a line for a person, on a one-to-one relationship (one person holding a space in line for one person) as needed and then get out of line when the person returns to claim their space in line.

        I wouldn't want to be a MB, as I like having my Defcon time to myself, but I'm sure there are people out there who would like the opportunity to pay money for go to a con and volunteer a few hours each day. However, the concept is a good one, and could provide people that want to help, and opportunity to do so.

        The most difficult problems I see with any kind of Monkey Butler system relate to trust. Both the trust in the people that is only gained when you spend time with them (especially in difficult circumstances) where their true mettle is exposed, and the trust that they are reliable.

        Like with security goons, you really want to know the guy that has your back really has your back, and can hold their own. I don't see security being able to take on extra help like that unless they really trust them (in both ways.)

        Managed well, even if such a volunteer group wasn't part of any official Defcon, they could help out the social situations and parties if such help was needed.

        So the question would then become:
        Is there a need for a base of volunteers by other attendees of Defcon to borrow for whatever reasons?
        Thank you. They were never intended to act as "security." They were intended to act as helpers and level 1's to look out for potential issues. And yes, there have been discussions regarding having something like a volunteer clearinghouse. :-) Now, let the ideas fly! Thank you Cotman.

        regards,

        valkyrie
        ________________________________________
        sapere aude

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Starting on Thursday....

          Originally posted by valkyrie View Post
          Thank you. They were never intended to act as "security." They were intended to act as helpers and level 1's to look out for potential issues. And yes, there have been discussions regarding having something like a volunteer clearinghouse. :-) Now, let the ideas fly! Thank you Cotman.

          regards,

          valkyrie
          ________________________________________
          sapere aude
          I don't care what they were. Ripshy was a fucking life saver. That dude hauled my ass all over Vegas to get equipment, never complained, did most of the heavy lifting himself (which was awesome but not necessary) and was great about it the whole time. He genuinely seemed to be happy to be helping out. I didn't have any interaction with the other Monkey Butlers but if he's an example of them then I'm all for them.
          perl -e 'print pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'

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          • #50
            Re: Starting on Thursday....

            Originally posted by Chris View Post
            I don't care what they were. Ripshy was a fucking life saver. That dude hauled my ass all over Vegas to get equipment, never complained, did most of the heavy lifting himself (which was awesome but not necessary) and was great about it the whole time. He genuinely seemed to be happy to be helping out. I didn't have any interaction with the other Monkey Butlers but if he's an example of them then I'm all for them.
            Thank you. He IS rock awesome. We had the van, we had the plan, we just were attempting to maximize resources. Ripshy not only is a god among men, Banshee is a goddess among women for working that out. Thank you for their props Roamer.

            Regards,

            valkyrie
            ________________________________
            sapere aude

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Starting on Thursday....

              Honestly, every year I end up needing some last minute help with one of the lower-key contests in the LockPicking Village (LPV) and while I always find some last minute helpers it make our start time pretty variable. The things I need done are usually very simple, don't require much in the way of trust, just 30 minutes of efficient work and we're ready to get off the ground. I would happily tap into a more formalized volunteer system when those issues are going to come up.

              Asking around the LPV has never failed me thus far, but being able to roll in with one or two people to assist for 30-45 minutes would ease a lot of stress. And as I'm hoping to more than quadruple the event for next year (just got an awesome lock hookup) a little help from a prepped pool of MBs could easily be the difference between a successful event and an underrealized one. I would happily introduce them around and hook them up with some practice locks for the help, too.

              I am a bit concerned that they could end up taken advantage of, though. I mean, completely unmitigated willingness to help people out around con is awesome, but it can definitely be taken too far. I mean, if you are standing in line for someone because they have to run to the local locksmith for last minute supplies, sure, that would be an awesome favor. Standing in line for someone because they asked you to, then ran off to get trashed at a bar? Not as cool.

              Also, who monkeys the monkeys? As unofficial as they may be, it seems like the system would require some oversight.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Starting on Thursday....

                Originally posted by Schuyler View Post
                Also, who monkeys the monkeys? As unofficial as they may be, it seems like the system would require some oversight.
                Actually, in the original proposal by Siviak, there was mention of a contact point for volunteers to contact and people that needed help to call. In this way, it would be a managed service.

                Consider this Defcon... What if Deviant could have made arrangements for a trusted monkey butler to stand in line for his Human badge. Then he could have gone to set up the LP Village, or been able to get he other badges that much faster.

                Maybe a party in a SkyBox has ended and there is need for moving things back into their place.

                I don't remember for sure, but I think there was a concept included for people to choose when they wanted to volunteer, so they wouldn't be a monkey butler the entire time.

                I really do think the concept is sound, and could solve the problem of telling people every year that want to volunteer, where to go, and tell people that need help for 15 minutes or 30 minutes with setting up their village, or party, or whatever else peripheral events to Defcon might use help.

                I can think of many such ideas on where it *could* be used, but only wonder if it actually would be used.

                Like what if the Monkey Butler organizer bought a disposable phone, and advertised the number to people wanting short-term help?

                This idea was originally Siviak's, so he would be the most likely person to ask to organize something like this, but HighWiz talked to me and others about it, and many suggested he talk to Siv about using the name and concept, so maybe HighWiz would also be interested. Many people would probably be interested, and many might be able to run such a volunteer network. Also, I don't know, others involved with the DC101 might be interested in helping out, and maybe one of the previous monkey butlers too.

                * Disclaimer: you all know and understand that I am not a goon, and have nothing to do with the real defcon (the events that take place 3 days a year (and maybe 4.)) My suggestions are made without wearing any Admin hat, but just a a simple human, that has been to a few Defcon. Because of this, I have no authority with any of these ideas being adopted for use at Defcon.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Starting on Thursday....

                  Originally posted by TheCotMan View Post
                  I can think of many such ideas on where it *could* be used, but only wonder if it actually would be used.
                  I would definitely make use of them & really? I'd happily sign up for an hour or two of returning the favor. It seems like a good way to see the parts of con I normally miss out on. Seems like a win-win if it can find solid organization. Will be interesting to see what happens with it.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Starting on Thursday....

                    my favorite Monkey Butler moment happened when they were patrolling the aisles during DC101, helping to repeat questions from the audience and generally acting as helpful ushers... one of the blue shirts (wasn't possible to easily see who) spotted Zac taking a phone call. not realizing who he was, he knelt down next to him and made what appeared to be a request that distractions like that happen outside.

                    heh, each party remained composed and conducted a back and forth in a respectful quiet tone, but it was clear that there was a slight communication breakdown happening for 30 seconds or so wherein Zac was likely telling someone on the other end of the line (probably someone operating a cargo crane or something, asking for immediate instructions on where to lay a container suspended in the air) to hold on, while trying to communicate to the MB that he was actually a key figure in the day's affairs and sort of did have to be on the phone at that time.

                    looked like it all resolved quickly and well, but i was surely stifling a small laugh on stage.
                    "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
                    - Trent Reznor

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Starting on Thursday....

                      Originally posted by Deviant Ollam View Post
                      my favorite Monkey Butler moment happened when they were patrolling the aisles during DC101, helping to repeat questions from the audience and generally acting as helpful ushers... one of the blue shirts (wasn't possible to easily see who) spotted Zac taking a phone call. not realizing who he was, he knelt down next to him and made what appeared to be a request that distractions like that happen outside.

                      heh, each party remained composed and conducted a back and forth in a respectful quiet tone, but it was clear that there was a slight communication breakdown happening for 30 seconds or so wherein Zac was likely telling someone on the other end of the line (probably someone operating a cargo crane or something, asking for immediate instructions on where to lay a container suspended in the air) to hold on, while trying to communicate to the MB that he was actually a key figure in the day's affairs and sort of did have to be on the phone at that time.

                      looked like it all resolved quickly and well, but i was surely stifling a small laugh on stage.
                      That whole thing perhaps lies in my ball court. The monkey butlers had their instructions and followed through beautifully. The instructions included if there was speaker on stage, the phones were on mute. If a call needed to be taken, it's taken in the hallway out of respect for the speakers and other attendees. I would hope that the same MB would have done that if it had been DT in the audience taking a call. Or you. :-)

                      So, if there was any heartburn about it, add it to my account and not theirs. I am a tard. They were just following instructions.

                      Regards,

                      valkyrie
                      _________________________________________
                      sapere aude

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Starting on Thursday....

                        Originally posted by Deviant Ollam View Post
                        my favorite Monkey Butler moment happened when they were patrolling the aisles during DC101, helping to repeat questions from the audience and generally acting as helpful ushers... one of the blue shirts (wasn't possible to easily see who) spotted Zac taking a phone call. not realizing who he was, he knelt down next to him and made what appeared to be a request that distractions like that happen outside.
                        That was xor, I am pretty sure he didn't realize it was Zac, which made it all the more funny.
                        "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

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                        • #57
                          Re: Starting on Thursday....

                          Originally posted by theprez98 View Post
                          That was xor, I am pretty sure he didn't realize it was Zac, which made it all the more funny.
                          Priceless!
                          PGP Key: https://defcon.org/html/links/dtangent.html

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Starting on Thursday....

                            What can I say. Man on a mission, I saw the phone, not the goon badge. Anyway Zac was very cool about it and I was very embarrassed, needless to say. I was technically looking for a red shirt but he didn't have one. :-)

                            xor

                            I think this quote from point break states it all:

                            Bodhi: I hate this Johnny. I really do. I hate violence. That is why I had Rosie do this, I could never do that man, I could never hold a knife to Tyler's throat, she was my woman. But, Rosie, he's like a mechanism. He's got this gift of blankness. Once you set him an emotion, he will not stop. So, when three o'clock comes, he will gut her like a pig, and try not to get any on his shoes and there is nothing I can do.
                            Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Starting on Thursday....

                              Let me first start by saying that I was unable to attend DC17. However, last year I showed up on Wednesday night (cheaper flights) and found that regardless of the con not "officially" starting yet, there was a lot going on. I think that adding an extra day to Defcon would be piling extra work onto a group of people that are already overworked trying to make it as fun an experience as they can. I say that if people want more to happen on Thursday, they should make it happen themselves. Open your hotel room door, put up signs, have impromptu talks or meetings or parties for anyone that's interested. Don't heap it onto the DC staff to make it happen, because more than likely its already happening somewhere.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Starting on Thursday....

                                Originally posted by xor View Post
                                What can I say. Man on a mission, I saw the phone, not the goon badge. Anyway Zac was very cool about it and I was very embarrassed, needless to say. I was technically looking for a red shirt but he didn't have one. :-)

                                xor
                                You did what you were asked to do. That's all that matters. Don't ever be a respecter of persons when doing what you are asked to do.

                                Regards,

                                valkyrie
                                ___________________________________
                                sapere aude

                                Comment

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