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Ndex almost stole all of my thunder before I could reply. So I will interject my semi-rational (and irrational) thoughts on this matter and hopefully I can help clear somethings up.
Maybe I have a different perspective then a lot of people at DefCon or maybe I just like to think I'm "special", either way sit back, relax, and take my response/commentary in (or with a grain of salt).
This thread started out calling all female geeks to come and join other female geeks for a gathering. At first, I thought "hey, that sounds like a great idea", then it got me to thinking "why?". As people read this thread some want to go out and burn their bra's, others think it is stupid.
The concept itself is a noble one, but what is the purpose? What is going to be accomplished by it? If the goal is to get more women to come to Defcon then why would you have a party at Defcon to discuss it? Why not use all the time leading up to Defcon to deal with that? You could setup a mailing list, a forum, an IRC Channel etc.. to discuss the idea.
If however the idea is just a party for women where they feel comfortable bullshitting with eachother, talking about the latest tech, discussing where they think the Con/Internet will be in a few years. Then why not do it?
Granted, some women will not attend because they think it would be the former type of gathering. But if it's the latter then it's not about getting every woman to attend, it's just about getting some likeminded people together (which is what Defcon is).
Last year around this time I thought it would be cool to have a party with LGBT persons at Con. Anyone who hung out with me at Dc11 knew that this did not take place. It's not just because all my time was spent out wardriving, or going to talks, if I wanted to I could have still had the party. The reason I didn't do it, is because I stopped seeing the need... I did however attend a "gay' party for a whole whopping 30 seconds. I find A) That all these guys were just scenewhores B)It was being run by some 50 year old guy who just like watching and C)That this was not Defcon.
As for respect, I am trying to figure out what everyone wants. Is it the respect of the people you associate with and talk to or respect of everyone at Con? If it's the latter, I can save you some trouble and for the most part say "NOT GUNNA HAPPEN". Who Cares if everyone doesn't respect you? A number of people at Defcon didn't respect me, but ya know what? That's life. I could have sat there and thrown myself a pity party, or said "fuck you" and had a good time (which I did).
On the issuance of scene whores: Ndex was correct, scenewhores have nothing to do with Gender. For every female scenewhore I saw at least two male scenewhores at DefCon... The male scenewhores were gay and straight a like. Like I said in the beginning of this, maybe it's because I look at people a little differently. The fact that some women are getting called scenewhores by a bunch skript kiddies bothers you? They're called kiddies for a reason, and the butt of many jokes. There is a reason that being called a Script Kiddie is such an insult to many. These are the same people who spend 360 days a year sitting behind a computer and jerking off because they don't have the social skills to get out and make some friends, and these are the people that you are worried about? These are the people you are insulted by? PLEASE! Spare me!
You're worried because some people at Con are looking at you more for your body then your mind? WHO CARES? How many women do you think looked at Stitch for his mind, and beyond how cute he was? He's one of the most intelligent people I know. If people sat down and had a conversation with him beyond the rigamrole of daily life they would see that. However, they don't look beyond that, and his response is a big Fuck you, while throwing two middle fingers in salute.
Maybe some of these issues are personal self-esteem issues. But identify them as such and don't misconstrue them.
And now a bit of commentary:
People believe what they want to believe. My attire at DefCon has always included Ban line Shirts and Khakis. Stitch and I were mistaken for feds more then once. Reality never does match up to what people believe. But don't ever let someone else dictate how you live your life. Wear what you want, and wear it with Pride.
Things like that do take place everywhere though. For instance, if you are working at Disney world and you are a guy there is the saying "Gay until proven straight". To say there aren't female scenewhores, I would be lying. But it all boils down to caring or not.
Dealing with New people: It has nothing to do with being a male or female. If you are new at Defcon people list you in the "n00b" category. Luckily if you are female your chances of getting pushed in the pool are not as great.
This post has become so long winded that I lost my train of thought a number of times, if you get lost too then welcome to my mind. And I will stop here.
Edit: Buy me beer and I will talk to you more or just buy me beer anyway.
Maybe I have a different perspective then a lot of people at DefCon or maybe I just like to think I'm "special", either way sit back, relax, and take my response/commentary in (or with a grain of salt).
This thread started out calling all female geeks to come and join other female geeks for a gathering. At first, I thought "hey, that sounds like a great idea", then it got me to thinking "why?". As people read this thread some want to go out and burn their bra's, others think it is stupid.
The concept itself is a noble one, but what is the purpose? What is going to be accomplished by it? If the goal is to get more women to come to Defcon then why would you have a party at Defcon to discuss it? Why not use all the time leading up to Defcon to deal with that? You could setup a mailing list, a forum, an IRC Channel etc.. to discuss the idea.
If however the idea is just a party for women where they feel comfortable bullshitting with eachother, talking about the latest tech, discussing where they think the Con/Internet will be in a few years. Then why not do it?
Granted, some women will not attend because they think it would be the former type of gathering. But if it's the latter then it's not about getting every woman to attend, it's just about getting some likeminded people together (which is what Defcon is).
Last year around this time I thought it would be cool to have a party with LGBT persons at Con. Anyone who hung out with me at Dc11 knew that this did not take place. It's not just because all my time was spent out wardriving, or going to talks, if I wanted to I could have still had the party. The reason I didn't do it, is because I stopped seeing the need... I did however attend a "gay' party for a whole whopping 30 seconds. I find A) That all these guys were just scenewhores B)It was being run by some 50 year old guy who just like watching and C)That this was not Defcon.
As for respect, I am trying to figure out what everyone wants. Is it the respect of the people you associate with and talk to or respect of everyone at Con? If it's the latter, I can save you some trouble and for the most part say "NOT GUNNA HAPPEN". Who Cares if everyone doesn't respect you? A number of people at Defcon didn't respect me, but ya know what? That's life. I could have sat there and thrown myself a pity party, or said "fuck you" and had a good time (which I did).
On the issuance of scene whores: Ndex was correct, scenewhores have nothing to do with Gender. For every female scenewhore I saw at least two male scenewhores at DefCon... The male scenewhores were gay and straight a like. Like I said in the beginning of this, maybe it's because I look at people a little differently. The fact that some women are getting called scenewhores by a bunch skript kiddies bothers you? They're called kiddies for a reason, and the butt of many jokes. There is a reason that being called a Script Kiddie is such an insult to many. These are the same people who spend 360 days a year sitting behind a computer and jerking off because they don't have the social skills to get out and make some friends, and these are the people that you are worried about? These are the people you are insulted by? PLEASE! Spare me!
You're worried because some people at Con are looking at you more for your body then your mind? WHO CARES? How many women do you think looked at Stitch for his mind, and beyond how cute he was? He's one of the most intelligent people I know. If people sat down and had a conversation with him beyond the rigamrole of daily life they would see that. However, they don't look beyond that, and his response is a big Fuck you, while throwing two middle fingers in salute.
Maybe some of these issues are personal self-esteem issues. But identify them as such and don't misconstrue them.
And now a bit of commentary:
Originally posted by mfreeck
To rant a little more... I have seen that females at Defcon are more likely to be assumed a scenewhore until proven otherwise, while males are assumed (unless they are very young) that they could be knowledgeable, until they open their mouth and prove otherwise. I think this puts women who are just starting out and perhaps alone off a LOT about coming to con. Am I a scenewhore because i don't know much about tech? Am I a scenewhore because I'm dating a hacker? Am I a scenewhore because I met my partner at Defcon?
Dealing with New people: It has nothing to do with being a male or female. If you are new at Defcon people list you in the "n00b" category. Luckily if you are female your chances of getting pushed in the pool are not as great.
This post has become so long winded that I lost my train of thought a number of times, if you get lost too then welcome to my mind. And I will stop here.
Edit: Buy me beer and I will talk to you more or just buy me beer anyway.
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